easter chicks/ ducklings?

[z28beeotch]

well its that time easter is comming up. i have a few ducks that were bought for kids for easter and when they got too big they were throwen in some random pond and expected to fend for them selfs. needless to say the ones that i have also had another baby with them that didnt make it overnight. last year was the first year that this happend. due to the fact that i was volnteering with a guy and he dosnt do waterfowl. the true wild ones found the respectable homes that could legally take care of them but the "farm" raised ones found a home with me. i am personally going to make shure that any of the ducks that i might sell i give a copy of a letter to people saying that if they can no longer take care of the duck that they will return it to me insted of "releasing" it to the "wild". what are your thoughts on people buying chicks/ ducklings for thier kids for easter?

[Evy]

well its that time easter is comming up. i have a few ducks that were bought for kids for easter and when they got too big they were throwen in some random pond and expected to fend for them selfs. needless to say the ones that i have also had another baby with them that didnt make it overnight. last year was the first year that this happend. due to the fact that i was volnteering with a guy and he dosnt do waterfowl. the true wild ones found the respectable homes that could legally take care of them but the "farm" raised ones found a home with me. i am personally going to make shure that any of the ducks that i might sell i give a copy of a letter to people saying that if they can no longer take care of the duck that they will return it to me insted of "releasing" it to the "wild". what are your thoughts on people buying chicks/ ducklings for thier kids for easter?

Many states, including NY, have laws requiring a minimum purchase of 6 birds to avoid the problem.
I'm curious about what breeds were ''true wild ones'' that needed respectable, legal homes. How were these ''captured''?

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Well it’s that time Easter is coming up. I have a few ducks that were bought for kids for Easter and when they got too big they were thrown in some random pond and expected to fend for themselves. Needless to say the ones that I have also had another baby with them that didn’t make it overnight. Last year was the first year that this happened. Due to the fact that I was volunteering with a guy and he doesn’t do waterfowl. The true wild ones found the respectable homes that could legally take care of them but the "farm" raised ones found a home with me. I am personally going to make sure that any of the ducks that I might sell I give a copy of a letter to people saying that if they can no longer take care of the duck that they will return it to me instead of "releasing" it to the "wild". What are your thoughts on people buying chicks/ ducklings for their kids for Easter?

My first thought is that you should run a spell check on your posts before you hit the submit button.

I ran your original post through the grinder and replaced it with the above. Now I believe that I get the gist of your thread.

Now I am done being a grumpy old . . . .

I agree with you. Onezies and twozies should never even be considered as a practical flock size for baby poultry. It is just irresponsible animal husbandry, especially for the young or inexperienced.

Here in Ohio we even have a law that prohibits the sale of hatchling poultry from being sold in lots of less than six.

Dropping off unwanted poultry in parks or at farms is just as irresponsible.


Ohio Revised Code
925.62 Dying rabbits and chicks.
No person, firm, or corporation shall dye or otherwise color any rabbit or baby poultry, including, but not limited to, chicks and ducklings. No person, firm, or corporation shall sell, offer for sale, expose for sale, raffle, or give away any rabbit or baby poultry which has been dyed or otherwise colored. No poultry younger than four weeks of age may be sold, given away, or otherwise distributed to any person in lots of less than six. Stores, shops, vendors, and others offering young poultry for sale or other distribution shall provide and operate brooders or other heating devices that may be necessary to maintain poultry in good health, and shall keep adequate food and water available to the poultry at all times.

Effective Date: 10-21-1971

[z28beeotch]

sorry about the spelling i am horrible at that. the the true wild ones were baby mallards that lost thier parents in a creek and canadian goslings that got lost. the ones that i could keep were the muscovy and blue swedish that i picked up. here in nc we have the same law but i think you have to buy 4. i just hate the fact that these poor birds have to suffer because someone thinks its cute to give thier children a chick/ duckling. i think they should go visit a farm if they dont have the space for the bird when it grows up.

[Patrick]

I agree with Neil, on both issues, but I also think that this so called problem gets blown way out of proportion. IMO it's often a rallying point for a bunch of do gooders who want to see abuse and neglect behind every barn, and who delight in spreading the word and saving the world from horrors which may or may not exist. Also, dyeing chicks in and of itself is not cruel or harmful. True, it does tend to attract the irresponsible, but it doesn't harm the birds. I sometimes resent these minimum number laws. If someone like myself wants to buy 4 BB turkey poults at the grain store, because they'll grow quicker and larger than my standard birds, why shouldn't I be allowed to?

BTW, I've seen other sites which are full of save the chick types, which also promote frequent swap meets, every one of which ignore any minimum chick sale numbers.

[cegs]

Here in S.C. TSC makes you buy six birds, I don‘t know if it‘s a state law or just something TSC does? The only thing is my daughter wanted to try some bantams they got in. She wanted ten but bought all thirteen they had left. I don’t know what would have happen to the three that was left if she only bought ten? Anyway I don’t think I would want birds back that I sold to folks who no longer want them. I don’t know what kind of living conditions they were in and don’t have enough quarantine pens. Might get something back with the birds that you wouldn’t want.

[Tom Foolery]

Here in S.C. TSC makes you buy six birds, I don‘t know if it‘s a state law or just something TSC does?

Must be a TSC thing because I just had to buy 6 RIR peeps from them here in Cali and it's not a state thing here. I really only wanted 3 baby roost- er, cockerels, but it's all good.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

I agree with Neil, on both issues, but I also think that this so called problem gets blown way out of proportion. IMO it's often a rallying point for a bunch of do gooders who want to see abuse and neglect behind every barn, and who delight in spreading the word and saving the world from horrors which may or may not exist. Also, dyeing chicks in and of itself is not cruel or harmful. True, it does tend to attract the irresponsible, but it doesn't harm the birds. I sometimes resent these minimum number laws. If someone like myself wants to buy 4 BB turkey poults at the grain store, because they'll grow quicker and larger than my standard birds, why shouldn't I be allowed to?

BTW, I've seen other sites which are full of save the chick types, which also promote frequent swap meets, every one of which ignore any minimum chick sale numbers.

Patrick- I have never been to a swap meet in the Northeast - I don't even go to them around here. A swap meet is just a poultry health disaster waiting to happen. When it does we will all suffer from it. As far as the laws go regarding things that happen at swap meets I always recall what my Dad said about the winerys on the Lake Erie islands. He said that "if it is not illegal or immoral they don't do it there."

[Evy]

Speaking of swaps...I remember my first time at the old Richmond, VA show. They had a big show & a HUGE swap, everything you can imagine from finches to emus, farm animals to game birds to elephant garlic! Similar to the Mt. Hope sales.The one thing that really stands out was overhearing a fellow exhibitor remark that he'd ''never seen so many USED chickens in his life!'' :-)

To be fair, the APWF group sponsored it & the selection of gamebirds & migratory waterfowl was exceptional. I wouldn't have bought a chicken if it'd been the last one on earth though!

[Patrick]

Neil, it sounds like you actually have been to one of these swaps in the Northeast. I find it interesting that they get so hot and bothered over at you know where, about the minimum chick issue, yet bring up the requirement for pullorum testing to participate in one of their swaps, and you're met with defiance. They refuse to test, as sure as their minds will allow that their birds do not have anything because they've never been sick in the 18 months since they discovered what a chicken was. Bring it up and you're a trouble maker. The moderators don't want to support you either, afraid of upsetting the emotionally fragile with such bothersome worries as animal health regulations.

It's too bad that serious gamebird and wild waterfowl breeders have to associate with the chicken swap crowd at some of these sales. It's like trying to sell a Rolls Royce on a lot full of used Yugos.

[ultasol]

You can hope to raise expectations, educate, and teach them what a good example of "insert breed here" looks like.

Everyone has to start somewhere. When you google poultry or how to build a coop,.. BYC comes up long before this site or the APA. You start somewhere, and you GROW from there. Attitudes and looking down the nose at people doesn't help.

I do agree more precautions do need to be taken with swaps (which I have never participated in). In WA there have been outbreaks of a couple lovely diseases in the past decade, and I can imagine them being easily spread through swaps.

Some of the people from BYC are wanting to exhibit and are entering in poultry shows- some of whom I feel know what they are doing and have a decent grasp of flock health, and others not so much. This is why it is important to reach out and educate now, rather than wait. Share your knowledge, it would be too bad to have it die with the more experienced generations of poultry keepers.

Yes, some of them have birds in diapers and fret over which treat to give their chickens today, but interspersed in that are some who are serious about birds.

I am still on that site, as it has more traffic and more information than here at this point,. although you do have sort through a good bit of rubbish.

Now, back on topic, NY had chick # purchase restrictions, but I don't believe WA does. I don't think it is always unhealthy to raise a lone chick, although it isn't preferable. I've had shipped eggs with only one hatch, and the chicks reared fine under proper conditions (heat lamp, plentiful food, clean water, no drafts).

[Patrick]

"You can hope to raise expectations, educate, and teach them what a good example of "insert breed here" looks like."

It's been discussed so many times. You can't teach the unwilling. There's so much more to it than teaching what a good example of a breed looks like. It's things like proper presentation and caging, not bringing lousy, feather picked birds, personal accountability, concern for the health of everyone's birds, the impression that outsiders are given about the hobby, etc. You can teach facts, but if there's a way to teach them sophistication, I don't know how.

[ultasol]

I found BYC before I found this site, and I am trying my best to learn, not just to listen, but actually LEARN. Yes, there are those there (as well as here) that will listen but not learn/take your advice, but there are those that will.

It concerns me that there is a, "us vs. them" attitude when it should be as with any forum or internet group open to public membership- you'll like some people and you won't like others. You'll have those that are like-minded and those that aren't.

I can understand your point on many things about BYC and some members there. So many posts I read make me sigh/roll my eyes, and some make me feel like reaching through the computer and throttling someone (ie a recent post where hatching quails under chickens was rehashed for the umpteenth time where people with no quail exp were saying 'go for it!', exp people were saying 'no'). That said, there are breed threads which are interesting (and I am certain you could add much to) and some genetics threads of interest.

If this site got more traffic and more posts, it would be fantastic, but in the meantime I go to BYC and read the threads that interest me. It is unfortunate other sites can't be mentioned there, as there are some health questions or genetics/breeding questions which might be more appropriate for here rather than lost in the masses of "oh, my chicken's pretty" or "what breed should I get, totally OMG yah" posts.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the people on the other board are children. I'm talking 10, 11, 12 years old. As with any child, they will sometimes post nonsense or run off at the mouth however the youth are where the future of the hobby lies. It would be grand if, along with some of the nonsense advice given, they got advice from more experienced hobbyists.


Now, I'm going to go try and remove my foot from my mouth before I choke on it. I shouldn't have brought this up again.

[Evy]

I found BYC before I found this site, and I am trying my best to learn, not just to listen, but actually LEARN. Yes, there are those there (as well as here) that will listen but not learn/take your advice, but there are those that will.

It concerns me that there is a, "us vs. them" attitude when it should be as with any forum or internet group open to public membership- you'll like some people and you won't like others. You'll have those that are like-minded and those that aren't.

I can understand your point on many things about BYC and some members there. So many posts I read make me sigh/roll my eyes, and some make me feel like reaching through the computer and throttling someone (ie a recent post where hatching quails under chickens was rehashed for the umpteenth time where people with no quail exp were saying 'go for it!', exp people were saying 'no'). That said, there are breed threads which are interesting (and I am certain you could add much to) and some genetics threads of interest.

If this site got more traffic and more posts, it would be fantastic, but in the meantime I go to BYC and read the threads that interest me. It is unfortunate other sites can't be mentioned there, as there are some health questions or genetics/breeding questions which might be more appropriate for here rather than lost in the masses of "oh, my chicken's pretty" or "what breed should I get, totally OMG yah" posts.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the people on the other board are children. I'm talking 10, 11, 12 years old. As with any child, they will sometimes post nonsense or run off at the mouth however the youth are where the future of the hobby lies. It would be grand if, along with some of the nonsense advice given, they got advice from more experienced hobbyists.


Now, I'm going to go try and remove my foot from my mouth before I choke on it. I shouldn't have brought this up again.

This forum isn't as ''pretty'' as the other, or even as it used to be, but it's been around for about 15 years. The format had to change because of the spamming problems. Sadly, the ''posting guidelines'' didn't come along with this new format. One thing it always has done though is encourage participation in other forums if someone here couldn't satisfactorily answer something. The senseless ''Yea, right'', ''me, too'' & ''So sorry'' posts were discouraged & removed. I hope that more crossover can be acheived between the two groups. If members like you could encourage serious beginners from there to join, I'm sure it would benefit all involved. If you're not ''allowed'' to do it openly, what about pm messaging ?

[kansaskaty]

I found BYC before I found this site, and I am trying my best to learn, not just to listen, but actually LEARN. Yes, there are those there (as well as here) that will listen but not learn/take your advice, but there are those that will.

It concerns me that there is a, "us vs. them" attitude when it should be as with any forum or internet group open to public membership- you'll like some people and you won't like others. You'll have those that are like-minded and those that aren't.

I can understand your point on many things about BYC and some members there. So many posts I read make me sigh/roll my eyes, and some make me feel like reaching through the computer and throttling someone (ie a recent post where hatching quails under chickens was rehashed for the umpteenth time where people with no quail exp were saying 'go for it!', exp people were saying 'no'). That said, there are breed threads which are interesting (and I am certain you could add much to) and some genetics threads of interest.

If this site got more traffic and more posts, it would be fantastic, but in the meantime I go to BYC and read the threads that interest me. It is unfortunate other sites can't be mentioned there, as there are some health questions or genetics/breeding questions which might be more appropriate for here rather than lost in the masses of "oh, my chicken's pretty" or "what breed should I get, totally OMG yah" posts.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the people on the other board are children. I'm talking 10, 11, 12 years old. As with any child, they will sometimes post nonsense or run off at the mouth however the youth are where the future of the hobby lies. It would be grand if, along with some of the nonsense advice given, they got advice from more experienced hobbyists.


Now, I'm going to go try and remove my foot from my mouth before I choke on it. I shouldn't have brought this up again.

You said it well.

[kansaskaty]

This forum isn't as ''pretty'' as the other, or even as it used to be, but it's been around for about 15 years. The format had to change because of the spamming problems. Sadly, the ''posting guidelines'' didn't come along with this new format. One thing it always has done though is encourage participation in other forums if someone here couldn't satisfactorily answer something. The senseless ''Yea, right'', ''me, too'' & ''So sorry'' posts were discouraged & removed. I hope that more crossover can be acheived between the two groups. If members like you could encourage serious beginners from there to join, I'm sure it would benefit all involved. If you're not ''allowed'' to do it openly, what about pm messaging ?

I have in the past recommended TPC to a few people especially recommending you Evy, but honestly after the events of the past couple of weeks on here I don't think I will anymore. If a new member who also belongs to BYC is met with skepticism and a "what the heck do you want here" attitude why would I encourage them to join? I too wish there could be more crossover, but with the name calling that is allowed here I can't imagine why a new person would want to join, knowing that some members of TPC consider anyone who belongs to BYC an idiot.

[ritterhahn]

Patrick’s right. I’ve tried a few times to talk round a few of the pet set. First, I prefer face to face. The forum format leaves a lot to be desired. People mistake tone and intent very easily.

To me, it is a matter of conclusions following premises. If my intent is to take the fancy as it is and learn the ways of exhibiting a breed – which means being active in the breed club—the questions will be the ‘right kind’. Might need correction as to terminology, but that is how the green apples learn the ropes.

For an informal flock, an old fashioned way to set the right tone is to ask to have recommended a good book on keeping chickens. Read the bloody thing. Good questions to ask are those that occur as one reads. Again, you can sort of tell the ‘right kind’ of question from the ring of authenticity it has– or, that they seem to be oriented to a real need.

Now, the pet set are the same, but it’s the premises they bring that cause the train wreck when they get answers that do not meet their needs. I know I say it often, and I apologize, but the new pet mentality is a radical departure from traditional definitions of companions or livestock. It is like the many needy, selfish, indulgent parents of today – ones that care so much more about their relationships with their children, rather than the kind of home life a child needs. Animals are so much more susceptible to the projections of emotional needs, and are thus so much more at risk for anthropomorphizing to run amuck. They feel about them much as a child does about stuffed animals – and know as much about their needs.

You can tell the type. It is self-fulfilling prophecy to try to show them another way. They want what they want with all the force of a consumer jaded with customer service. Your premises and conclusions are different – too much so. When I find such a one, I do not bother to speak but excuse myself politely.

[Evy]

I have in the past recommended TPC to a few people especially recommending you Evy, but honestly after the events of the past couple of weeks on here I don't think I will anymore. If a new member who also belongs to BYC is met with skepticism and a "what the heck do you want here" attitude why would I encourage them to join? I too wish there could be more crossover, but with the name calling that is allowed here I can't imagine why a new person would want to join, knowing that some members of TPC consider anyone who belongs to BYC an idiot.

I don't believe anyone has been met with a bad attitude except those who come in with one. Yes, there was some harshness that, hopefully, has ended. I also feel this is mostly adults here & we shouldn't have to sugar-coat everything. The criticism of some of the BYC activity was justified. Sometimes the truth is a bit harsh. I thought you were going to be an asset to this group, but you seem to only want to continue an old argument. I believe it's past time to let it go.

[Patrick]

Actually ultasol, I agree with just about everything in your last post. The problem is, the us vs them attitude is blatent over at BYC. Here, everyone is welcome, and most points of view. There, they bury their head in the sand, shrink in fear from any controversy and any ideas that may create any sort of disruption to anyone's fragile emotional state, real or imagined. It's the sort of Disneyesque, 1950's, Stepford Wives attitude that has caused way more real harm than any jerk like me who just spouts his mouth off. As far as I'm concerned, that terrielacie is public enemy number one toward all sensible, thinking poultry keepers. I would love it if you could somehow lure the sensible, emotionally stable people who can understand what you do, even if we're bound to strongly disagree at times. I do realize that a small number of those who easily get their feelings hurt are children, but many are not, at least physically.

[kansaskaty]

Patrick’s right. I’ve tried a few times to talk round a few of the pet set. First, I prefer face to face. The forum format leaves a lot to be desired. People mistake tone and intent very easily.

To me, it is a matter of conclusions following premises. If my intent is to take the fancy as it is and learn the ways of exhibiting a breed – which means being active in the breed club—the questions will be the ‘right kind’. Might need correction as to terminology, but that is how the green apples learn the ropes.

For an informal flock, an old fashioned way to set the right tone is to ask to have recommended a good book on keeping chickens. Read the bloody thing. Good questions to ask are those that occur as one reads. Again, you can sort of tell the ‘right kind’ of question from the ring of authenticity it has– or, that they seem to be oriented to a real need.

Now, the pet set are the same, but it’s the premises they bring that cause the train wreck when they get answers that do not meet their needs. I know I say it often, and I apologize, but the new pet mentality is a radical departure from traditional definitions of companions or livestock. It is like the many needy, selfish, indulgent parents of today – ones that care so much more about their relationships with their children, rather than the kind of home life a child needs. Animals are so much more susceptible to the projections of emotional needs, and are thus so much more at risk for anthropomorphizing to run amuck. They feel about them much as a child does about stuffed animals – and know as much about their needs.

You can tell the type. It is self-fulfilling prophecy to try to show them another way. They want what they want with all the force of a consumer jaded with customer service. Your premises and conclusions are different – too much so. When I find such a one, I do not bother to speak but excuse myself politely.

I have said from the beginning I don't agree with how people put their birds in diapers and try to make a house pet....or any kind of pet out of them. At my house they are livestock and live like chickens and ducks are supposed to. You are right that there are some that are a lost cause in trying to get the message across to them that they do not do their birds any favors by treating them as pets. Those people I generally ignore, because you are right, they don't want to and won't hear anything I have to say that doesn't agree with them.

My biggest issue from the beginning has been the name calling and lumping together of all members of BYC. Everyone on this site is not the same type of person, nor is everyone on BYC of the same mindset. To lump all members of a forum together and declare them all worthless seems rather shallow and self-centered. TPC might actually be pleasantly surprised with what some of us could share if we felt like we could post and not be called names because we chose to belong to more than one poultry forum.

[kansaskaty]

I don't believe anyone has been met with a bad attitude except those who come in with one. Yes, there was some harshness that, hopefully, has ended. I also feel this is mostly adults here & we shouldn't have to sugar-coat everything. The criticism of some of the BYC activity was justified. Sometimes the truth is a bit harsh. I thought you were going to be an asset to this group, but you seem to only want to continue an old argument. I believe it's past time to let it go.

I have only commented in response to someone else's mention about BYC.....am I not allowed to do that?

I don't need sugar coated, nor do I sugar coat things. I am more than willing to let it go ....is everyone else ready to stop the name calling?

[ultasol]

Evy- I feel Katy does have much to contribute. Having read many posts from her on BYC I believe she is the type of member from BYC that would be a good fit here. The issue is that there are those on BYC who have formed friendships of the type that can develop over the internet, and as anyone with dual loyalties they want to participate here without seeing the other forums they frequent bashed.

Instead of linking chickens as pets to BYC I believe it to be linked to the modern attitude. While I am very much for some of the pressure they put on livestock producers to reform production methods, these are the same people likely to anthropomorphize birds should they have them. It's not a BYC thing, it's a I'm-new-to-chickens thing, a I-grew-up-in-the-city-but-want-my-own-eggs thing, it's a I'm-a-novice-to-livestock thing, and a I've-only-had-cats-and-dogs-before thing. These people aren't exclusive to BYC, they are everywhere.

The fellow who posted about teaching chickens tricks, for example. He came here. He was met with harsh words and, if I were him, I wouldn't come back. In all likelihood that was some kid. I can imagine many of the local 4-h kids wanting a 'How to teach your chickens tricks," book, as they are children and it is amusing and cute to see a bird do such antics. Instead of the harsh words, a simple, "We don't know here, you would have better luck at BYC. We tend to focus on poultry as exhibition and production birds rather than their value as pets." Heck, even the first part would have sufficed, the other nonsense served only to belittle and aggravate the poster. It was unnecessary. The poster did nothing to anyone here, did not call anyone names, and deserved better than he got.

If we can agree we are mostly adults here, we should be able to be above petty insults for the most part.

I don't mind recommending this forum to people, but I wish I wouldn't feel as though I had to warn them against some people who have rather sharp tongues.

[ultasol]

One more thing,.. if you saw the treatment some have received here in response to questions, etc. on a forum you were considering joining, wouldn't you feel as though you had to wear kid gloves and tiptoe around? By not holding your tongue, you can often make others hold theirs.

Polite rebuffs are plenty and useful. Perhaps this needs to be considered when typing responses.

[Evy]

One more thing,.. if you saw the treatment some have received here in response to questions, etc. on a forum you were considering joining, wouldn't you feel as though you had to wear kid gloves and tiptoe around? By not holding your tongue, you can often make others hold theirs.

Polite rebuffs are plenty and useful. Perhaps this needs to be considered when typing responses.

Agreed. Truce?

[z28beeotch]

ok. first of all i didnt mean for this thread to turn out into another TPC/ BYC fight about who is better than the other. both sites have good and bad info. it dosnt really matter. i put my ducks up there with my cat and dog. if one dies i am a little sad but i also relize that they are ducks. Evy as a answer to a post in another thread that got closed i volnteer for a wildlife rehabber that works with birds of pray. the eagle is a non-native bird she is in captivty and has been for about 40 years. the bumble foot is diganosed by a vet. i was thinking that a glove type think would be easyer than vet wrap and she would have better use of her foot while it was being treated. anyways i do think some people here can be harsh but on the other hand most of us are adults and can handel it. look all i was trying to find out was what were eveyones thoughts on parents buying "farm" raised ducklings for thier kids and than just dumping them in a pond when they got too big for them?

[Penmaker]

I don't believe anyone has been met with a bad attitude except those who come in with one. Yes, there was some harshness that, hopefully, has ended. I also feel this is mostly adults here & we shouldn't have to sugar-coat everything. The criticism of some of the BYC activity was justified. Sometimes the truth is a bit harsh. I thought you were going to be an asset to this group, but you seem to only want to continue an old argument. I believe it's past time to let it go.
Evy, Why would you direct this statement to Kansaskaty? It is Patrick that brought BYC into the conversation. I have never seen you have the same message to him. Just who is it that needs to let it go? In fact I more often see you jump on the rant wagon with him than anything else.

I've seen the barrels of Bunnies that died from respiratory infection after being dyed. Then they where actually dipped in tanks of liquid dye. I am not sure if they still do it that way. If they have developed a way to color them without harming them I don't have nearly as much issue with it. Heck look at what kids do to themselves now days. Still there is no way anyone walks away with one chick with any knowledge or intention of actually caring for it properly. I know it is also illegal here to sell single chick color them or offer them as promotional give aways. in fact it is illegal to give any animal as a prize or such. When the fair comes to town they have to come up with something else for you to win at the dime toss rather than a golf fish even.

[Evy]

Evy as a answer to a post in another thread that got closed i volnteer for a wildlife rehabber that works with birds of pray. the eagle is a non-native bird she is in captivty and has been for about 40 years. the bumble foot is diganosed by a vet. i was thinking that a glove type think would be easyer than vet wrap and she would have better use of her foot while it was being treated.

**** That sounds reasonable. Does he have to hood her to keep her from picking at it?

[Evy]

Evy, Why would you direct this statement to Kansaskaty? It is Patrick that brought BYC into the conversation. I have never seen you have the same message to him. Just who is it that needs to let it go? In fact I more often see you jump on the rant wagon with him than anything else.

I've seen the barrels of Bunnies that died from respiratory infection after being dyed. Then they where actually dipped in tanks of liquid dye. I am not sure if they still do it that way. If they have developed a way to color them without harming them I don't have nearly as much issue with it. Heck look at what kids do to themselves now days. Still there is no way anyone walks away with one chick with any knowledge or intention of actually caring for it properly. I know it is also illegal here to sell single chick color them or offer them as promotional give aways. in fact it is illegal to give any animal as a prize or such. When the fair comes to town they have to come up with something else for you to win at the dime toss rather than a golf fish even.

I tend to back Patrick up because I've known him personally for several years & I know he knows what he's talking about. That doesn't necessarly mean I condone all the name calling from anyone. I refered to one specific person, not everyone in general on that forum, & I meant it.
Chicks or bunnies shouldn't die from vegetable dye unless the person doing it drowned them. It's safer than injecting dye into a developing egg as they used to. Doing it to sell them as Easter pets is just plain wrong. However, a friend dyes Silkie chicks for an exhibit at the State Fair. Nothing is harmed or sold & the exhibit, along with colored, plastic eggs, is a huge hit.

[ultasol]

Evy- never meant to be an argument.

As far as I see it is has ceased to be a BYC vs TPC issue but rather an issue regarding the decent treatment of other people, specifically other forum members. Anyone who asks a question here is a member, and if the question is asked nicely/politely they deserve a polite answer without name calling or insults. It comes down to basic decency. We've all been less than charitable or polite at some point, but it becomes harder to determine online since you don't witness the person's reaction to the post first hand.

I'd rather be too nice than too mean, however that does not mean candy-coating reality. It just means practice decency and treat others kindly. As I said, there are polite rebuffs that would get across the same point without hurting feelings or stepping on toes. Since I am certain most of us would prefer not to step on toes or hurt feelings, why is such rudeness occurring?

This is not aimed at you Evy, rather at the board as a whole. There appears to be a communication issue. I do not like what I see as 'over-moderation' at BYC, but some of the blatant rudeness here leads me to think some moderation is necessary for a board to be successful. Nobody wants to post questions or spend time on a board where they are ridiculed.

[kansaskaty]

I tend to back Patrick up because I've known him personally for several years & I know he knows what he's talking about. That doesn't necessarly mean I condone all the name calling from anyone. I refered to one specific person, not everyone in general on that forum, & I meant it.
Chicks or bunnies shouldn't die from vegetable dye unless the person doing it drowned them. It's safer than injecting dye into a developing egg as they used to. Doing it to sell them as Easter pets is just plain wrong. However, a friend dyes Silkie chicks for an exhibit at the State Fair. Nothing is harmed or sold & the exhibit, along with colored, plastic eggs, is a huge hit.

I'd like to know also why it was addressed to me, when all I did was respond to another's post. I have made a point of not bringing up BYC....only respond to other people's posts about it.

[z28beeotch]

Evy as a answer to a post in another thread that got closed i volnteer for a wildlife rehabber that works with birds of pray. the eagle is a non-native bird she is in captivty and has been for about 40 years. the bumble foot is diganosed by a vet. i was thinking that a glove type think would be easyer than vet wrap and she would have better use of her foot while it was being treated.

**** That sounds reasonable. Does he have to hood her to keep her from picking at it?

i dont really know i think he used to but after so many times i think she is use to having her foot wraped up. i do love all kind of birds. but my favorite is waterfowl. they can hurt you but it isnt as bad as some can do.