The big winner!

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL384/1082797/13243225/386449325.jpg

[Evy]

Of course you aren't partial, are you ? ;-) Good show ?

[Altair]

Not a feather out of place. Wonderful bird.

[wyldehorses]

Beautiful bird and awesome photo.

[lildinkem]

I wish mine would stay still long enough to get a pic like this. Nice camera work Neil. I am sure the proud owner of this gorgeous bird is very pleased with your photographic expertise. Way to go!

[ultasol]

Wow! Excellent conditioning on that bird. I was lucky enough to clerk for Gary Overton this past weekend. He puts a lot of emphasis on conditioning and completion in a bird.
That leghorn is in gorgeous condition. A real jaw-dropper.

[MKG]

Is it just me, or do the top three or so tail feathers appear to be in kind of ratty condition? It seems to me an all white bird should have better feather quality than that to make show champion. Sorry for being the killjoy here. Nice photo though.

[Altair]

I thought I noticed that too. Maybe the competition looked worse, not sure.

[Patrick]

Mike, like you said in another post, you get the hard truth here, like it or not.
In my experience, a fair amount of time and handling can elapse between when a bird is chosen a winner, and when Neil, or anyone else, gets the opportunity to photograph it. Just look at some of the photos in the poultry press. You probably ask yourself, like I do, what the hell? Then again a lot of the PP photos have to do with the (lack of) skill or patience of whomever is taking the shot. If I know Neil, this leghorn could have looked like she was pulled from a sale pen before he started with her, so a few out of condition tail feathers, in an adult hen, Leghorn of all breeds, at a spring show, in a Grassbaugh photo, some time after she was judged......almost meaningless, IMO.

[MKG]

Fair enough Patrick. I was hoping she had been in better condition when picked, and that may very well be the case. But if not the judge may have gone snowblind from the reflection off those gleaming white feathers!

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

If I recall correctly Carl said he had a total of nine mature SC White Leghorn LF in his flock. That is to breed from and to show.
Like he, I would have had that hen in a breeding pen this spring. She shows a little wear from that.
Long gone are the days when there were many birds kept not for breeding but just for spring shows. And hence in fine condition.
She was well presented considering the circumstances and the judges allowed her that.
She showed like true champ all the time and as you can see she had great type. And the judges rewarded her for that.

I have seen far to many substandard type birds win this spring with the attending comment "well she/he has great color".

Like Jeff Halbach always says - "Would it have been the winner if it was white?"

[lildinkem]

If I understand what your sayin, today Exhibitors put more emphasis on their breeding programs then how well their better birds show. Being all about the breed type of guy, I can live with that. Let there be 3 ruffled feathers on a spectacular bird that wins.

[Altair]

^ Right on. This kind of aesthetic faux pas, which is very minor, isn't on the gene level so it's nothing truly reflective of the bird.

[ultasol]

By looking at the picture, it could be transport or cage damage. Still nice condition overall.

[MKG]

Like Jeff Halbach always says - "Would it have been the winner if it was white?"

I think an even better question is: " Would it have been the winner if it was not white?" There is a much higher degree of difficulty in producing properly colored birds, especially parti-colored ones, so hopefully most judges take that into account.

[MattL]

By the sheer definition in the scale of points a white bird needs better type than a colored bird.
White 70% type %20 color and %10 condition
Colored 60% type %30 color and %10 condition

I have a question for everyone, how many points would you deduct from Carl's White Leghorn for the rough finish to a few of her tail feathers remembering we only have 10 condition points to work with? Could it be that even with the tail feathers being a little rough she out scored the other LF at this show? Food for thought and a good thread in a rather dull time of the year on the boards:)
Matt L

[SnGbantams]

Having personally raised these birds in the past its looks to me that she may have needed a quick wipe with a silk cloth or maybe she backed into her wire cage at the show, If we really want to be picky there may be a secondary tail feather missing (or just out of place) i wouldn't take more than one half point on condition. Either way i would welcome her into my flock anytime. I agree with Matt, she must have been better than her competition, great shot Neil, beautiful bird Carl. Steven

[gooseman495]

Looks good Carl. See you in Lucusville this spring.

Bill

[MattL]

Can't wait to see some of those males of yours Bill and see Carl squirm:)

[VGP]

Bill,

I will see you there. Wish you could have been in Greenville, there were 65 large Leghorns and 100 bantams. Jason Pettit had best bantam Leghorn (and champion SCCL) so it was a good day for white Leghorns from Zanesville.

Mark Atwood, Ken Aho, and of course our friend Bud Blankenship had their Browns there (I think Mark told me he brought 63 birds altogether, standard and bantam, he also hit a deer and totaled his truck) Steve Wojtkowiak brought his and Rick Hare's whites and Curtis Oakes judged the whole, so it was a virtual whos who in Leghorns except for you. All of these guys went out of there way to congratulate me after the show and that meant more to me than winning.

I intend to go to the Buckeye Fancy Feather Show and the Top of Ohio show and that will finish up my Spring shows. Will you be at either of these?

Carl

Carl

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Can't wait to see some of those males of yours Bill and see Carl squirm:)

Steve W had a pretty good SC White Cock at G'ville that made Carl squirm a bit and there was a really good SC Light Hen (Atwood) that made it to Reserve Med as well.

This was no walk away win over a bunch of swap meet birds.

Lucasville will be another fun day with all the Leghorn boys there looking for BLOOD.

I love it.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

By the sheer definition in the scale of points a white bird needs better type than a colored bird.
White 70% type %20 color and %10 condition
Colored 60% type %30 color and %10 condition

I have a question for everyone, how many points would you deduct from Carl's White Leghorn for the rough finish to a few of her tail feathers remembering we only have 10 condition points to work with? Could it be that even with the tail feathers being a little rough she out scored the other LF at this show? Food for thought and a good thread in a rather dull time of the year on the boards:)
Matt L

Matt-

Like Clyde used to say - "First build the barn then paint it."

Then there was the carpenter that told me "A good coat of paint will cover up my mistakes." I unemployed him and his attitude.

I think that a lot of non solid color bird exhibitors believe that the solid color birds get an easy pass in that area. How often does an off white or poorly washed white one make it to the front row?

[gooseman495]

I might go to the Buckeye show. I always wanted to. I can't be running to shows every weekend, need a few weekends to get things done around the house this spring.

Bill

[MKG]

I think that a lot of non solid color bird exhibitors believe that the solid color birds get an easy pass in that area. How often does an off white or poorly washed white one make it to the front row?

Yes, that is true. I believe judges sometimes take the easy route and pick white birds for a variety of reasons. White is not too difficult to breed, and washing isn't hard. So why should an off-white bird be put up???

[ges]

Beautiful bird. Great photo. I make no claims to be a judge or even a poor imitation of a judge, but to answer Matt's question. I don't see how there could possibly more than a 1 point deduction for the tail feathers.

gerry

[TomNY]

If I am right in thinking the barbules are separated but no parts are missing I agree with a 1/2 point deduction. Tom

[MattL]

I think the exact opposite is true. I am harder on white birds because almost every flaw shows up. When you put one on champion row, it better be clean and an eye catcher. When you work a class, you are looking for the best bird in that class. I want a bird that will show well on Champion row and catch the other judges eye. There are good colored varieties out there. I often hear from exhibitors that getting beat by a white or black bird is because it was an easy easy out for the judge. I think when a colored bird wins like an exceptional little Brown Red Amerucana female I picked back last fall is a real credit to the breeder:) If you have type and good color, you will win your share! I have done it with several breeds and more with a colored bird than a white one. Keep the faith, all judges are not color blind!

[MKG]

There are good colored varieties out there. . . I think when a colored bird wins like an exceptional little Brown Red Amerucana female I picked back last fall is a real credit to the breeder:) . . . Keep the faith, all judges are not color blind!

Yeah, you done good Matt. The whites and blacks were not quite up to par at that show, plus the owner of the best of the whites was not present to groom his birds. But it's Ameraucana - few can spell that word for some reason. I didn't intend to paint all judges with the same broad brush.

[MattL]

I spell that 10 different ways every time I try to spell. Must be a mental block:)
MattL

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

ORIGINAL IMAGE NOT PHOTOSHOPPED. A BETTER LOOK AT HER "RATTY" TAIL.


http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL384/1082797/13243225/386835456.jpg

[Patrick]

I'm with Matt on the mental block of that A-word. I have to look it up every time. I even have a hard time pronouncing it.
Thank goodness that not all judges are color blind. There's at least one guy out there who likes to put up rare breeds or varieties even if they don't quite measure up to the popular ones. As long as they come close, he likes to give them a shot, just because they deserve, in his opinion, to be up on Ch Row every so often. I like seeing rare breeds and varieties more than most, but not at the expense of putting an inferior one up, just because.

[MKG]

Yes, there are some. I remember Thane Earle making a Speckled Sussex bantam show champion one time. It brought tears to the eyes of the owner, who is long since deceased. Thane is confined to a nursing home now.
Phil Bartz is another who will put rare breeds and varieties on top. He made a White Chantecler bantam show champ. I'm sure there are more that could be named, but I don't show all that much.

[Evy]

Yes, there are some. I remember Thane Earle making a Speckled Sussex bantam show champion one time. It brought tears to the eyes of the owner, who is long since deceased. Thane is confined to a nursing home now.
Phil Bartz is another who will put rare breeds and varieties on top. He made a White Chantecler bantam show champ. I'm sure there are more that could be named, but I don't show all that much.

It took guts to put Art Lundgrens Pastel Call up ... at was it Lucasville?...last year. White ones do it often enough (mine, even ), but this was special.

[Patrick]

I'm not saying don't put them up if they don't deserve it. Some OE guys would say that nothing else ever deserves CH Bantam. I have seen some very nice Speckled Sussex bantams in recent years. As an aside, I also like what the OE guys have done with the Speckled Sussex influece in their breed. Have I ever seen a Chantecler bantam, in any variety, let alone a good one? And how would I know it when I saw it?

[windyflat]

The cushion comb should give it away.. It's different from all other breeds.

[Patrick]

Gee, thanks for that groundbreaker. I never would have guessed.

[windyflat]

you asked for it:lol:

[MKG]

. . . Have I ever seen a Chantecler bantam, in any variety, let alone a good one? And how would I know it when I saw it?

Patrick, I'm not claiming mine are great, but if you want to see some Chantecler bantams go to my poultry website, http://redstagacres.webs.com . Click on the photos link to bring up the albums, then click on the Chantecler Bantam photo to bring up that specific album. The 2009 partridge cockerel went BB at the 2009 A.P.A. National in Illinois. The 2008 cockerel was his sire. I am working to develop a line of buff bantams as well. Probably the best typed Chantecler pictured is the large fowl Partridge Chantecler pullet - different album.

[Patrick]

Thanks, I'll do when I have more time to study them. And now at least I'll know that they're Chanteclers, .........from the combs.