ABA 2009 Election Candidates

[MattL]

ABA PRESIDENT
Jeff Halbach - WI
Bill Wulff - IN

ABA VICE PRESIDENT
Pat Lacey – WI
Matt Lhamon – OH

District 1-
Warren Carlow-RI

District 2-
Jamie Matts-NY
Mark Podgwaite-VT

District 3-
Kevin Unrath-NJ

District 4-
Tom Roebuck-VA

District 5-
Laura Haggarty-KY

District 6-
Tom Chandler-IN

District 7-
Anthony Ashley-SC
Neil Mahaffey-NC

District 8-
Tommy Lee-GA

District 9-
Dan Karasek-WI
Byron Kershaw-WI

District 10-
Scott Adams-NE
Terry Britt-OK
Ann Charles-AR

District 11-
Bob Choate-TX

District 12-
Steve Beaty-NM

District 13-
Jim LeGendre-OR

District 14-
Eric Kutch-CA

District 15 & 16
No candidates

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Presidential candidate Jeff Halbach,Vice Presidential candidate Matt Lhamon and District 5 Director candidate Laura Haggarty (who is unopposed in this election) have places on the internet where they can state positions and answer questions posed by ABA members.

If any of the other candidates are using the interenet to connect with the membership before this crutial election we would all like to know the location.

The office of director is contested in only four of the sixteen districts. That is only 25% (and unfortunate). The membership in those districts should have a keen interest in the candidates positions since a vote there really counts for a lot in those contests.

The exibition poultry hobby is at a point in its history that crucial descisions about the future have to be made. I encourage all of you to participate in these descisions by learing the candidates positions, helping them form postions that you think are important, and becoming involved in the election process.

[dakers]

Jeff Halbach's opponent for Pres. didn't have anything in the ABA quarterly either. He also didn't update meets from last year's show catalog - in the Indiana show he coordinates that was held this weekend. I'm thinking you'd want Pres. of ABA to plan ahead & make decisions in a timely manner.

[Pathfinders]

Just FYI, if anyone has any questions for me, they can always contact me via email at lhaggarty AT blueone DOT net, or through my blog: http://mizgreenjeans.blogspot.com/ or via the contact form on our family website: http://www.pathfindersfarm.com, or even via Facebook, I'm happy to chat. Or heck, you can holler at me here, I stop in about once a day at least.

So, does anyone have any specific questions they'd like to ask those of us who are using this forum?

Laura

[HeadmUP]

So, does anyone have any specific questions they'd like to ask those of us who are using this forum?

I'll go...I'm not in your district Laura, but I wouldn't mind hearing your opinions on the pros and cons of the "point system"

[Pathfinders]

Well, points. Hmmm, this is a minefield of a question now isn't it?

There are positives and negatives to points, just like anything else in life. I think the pros are, if nothing else, they help to bring people into the fancy who wouldn't otherwise show. Points are an encouragement for those people who like to rack 'em up and accumulate them, nice little ego boosters if you will. But they also do serve a purpose, in that those with lots of points get them by showing, natch. And if a given exhibitor has a lot of points (especially if gotten over the spread of a number of years) one has to assume they are doing well with their breeding program. It's a numerical way to judge who has done well at shows, if nothing else.

Mind you, there are certainly point hounds with big wallets who can afford to show all over the country and get lots of points that way, bless their hearts. And we all know the Master Buyers (as opposed to Master Breeders) who purchase expensive birds and then campaign the heck out of them to rack up a lot of points in a short period of time. I think anyone who knows showing knows what the deal is there, and we take those kinds of point accumulators in stride and at face value. But I do think if you look at someone who has been showing for a number of years and see that they have lots of points, it does say something about the depth and consistency of their breeding program. You just don't keep winning if you're not producing good birds (most of the time anyway.)

OTOH, I am not overly concerned that someone I purchase birds from have a huge number of points. I prefer to see potential purchases beforehand if I can, unless I know the kind of birds a breeder has from seeing their stuff at shows previously. Because there are breeders out there who may not, for whatever reason, show extensively, and who have excellent stock. So I take points for what they're worth when it comes to purchasing birds.

So HeadmUP, what do YOU think about points? You wouldn't have asked if you didn't have a concern or issue, I presume.

Laura

[Bob308]

The APA has the point system, not the ABA.

Bob

[dakers]

Depends on what you call a point system. I recently completed an ABA show report & the math for figuring trios and displays points was more than I wanted to understand.

[Pathfinders]

Depends on what you call a point system. I recently completed an ABA show report & the math for figuring trios and displays points was more than I wanted to understand.

In the immortal words of the Gumby (Monty Python bit): "My brain hurts!"

I know just what you mean.

[bruno]

Laura,

I think it's important to recognize breeders and their contribution to the breed they have chosen. At the same time, there are those that "stack" classes in an effort to rack up enough starred wins for master breeder status. Having raised japanese since '95 I know how difficult it is to compete against rocks, reds, dutch, leghorns, etc.

Bruno

[HeadmUP]

Yes, agreed a minefield, and I certainly didn't mean to put you in a place where you could lose a limb. :wink: Just looking for a general overall feeling of how people on the poultry associations boards feel about it. God knows I've chased a point or two in my time and I'm ok with it, but some people whom I deeply respect feel "points" hurt the overall hobby. I see both sides. Very short answer...in general, I feel competition is a good thing, but only people with well balanced, in perspective personalities should play.

[MattL]

Let me help Laura out here. The only points system worth it's salt is the ABA system. If you win in a class of 100 birds regardless of what they are, that is an accomplishment. If you want to pay the entry fee 20 times for 100 birds to accomplish this, then so be it. I would say those occassions are less than 1% of the total points chasers. Has it hurt the fancy, that is debatable but there are more breeders and exhibitors than before the points system. I have no plans to work or change the ABA system. The APA system is another discusion altogether. For example, you can win Champion Continental in a class of 25 and get points. You can win Res. RCCL in a class of 1700 and get nothing. Not a good system and it bascially means little or nothing.
Matt L

[katschicks]

Interesting subject about the point system. So could one of you guys or gals post exactly what the APA and the ABA point systems are ? Thanks. As far as the subject of people buying the best birds they can and showing them. Go for it. And folks figure out who they are pretty quick looks like. Plus the breeder that sold them those birds may get a little return for there efforts. And what about the breeder that can afford to hatch 4 or 5 hundred chicks to select from ? Are they breeders or multipliers ? To me each has a place . Anybody that buys a bantam chicken , be it a $2.00 or a $300.00 chicken helps keep the bantam poultry breeds going. And in this day and times we need all of them. Just me. Rog

[Bob308]

Rog-
The ABA doesn't have a point system they have Starred Wins ( the compliments of Mr. Jeffery), it is quite simple in that when you beat 100 or more birds, 30 or more trios, or 10 or more displays you earn a Starred win. 20 Starred wins and you get Master Exhibitor, 20 in one breed and variety and you get Master breeder. There are other parts to it but this is the jest of it.

The APA has a complicated point system that I doubt only 20% of exhibitors care about and as Matt has said doesn't make sense. I would have pasted it from the website but it would take up a whole page, here is the link- http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/pointsystem1.htm

To me there is nothing wrong with working on awards, no matter what they are. But those that use that as their main driving force are missing the best part of the fancy.

Bob

[goosedragon]

Does anyone understand why in the APA system you can win points if there are 25 or more regular sized birds in a class but the class size for bantams is 50 birds? ~gd

[micofwis]

[quote="katschicks"] As far as the subject of people buying the best birds they can and showing them. Go for it. SOME JUST FEEL THERE IS SOMETHING INTRINSICALLY AND ETHICALLY WRONG ABOUT PURCHASING A BIRD ONE DAY AND SHOWING IT THE NEXT TO GET SOME KIND OF CREDIT FOR THEMSELVES. IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE WORLD WE LIVE IN WHEN SUCH BEHAVIOUR BECOMES COMMONPLACE AND ACCEPTED AS NORMAL. And what about the breeder that can afford to hatch 4 or 5 hundred chicks to select from ? Are they breeders or multipliers ? DEPENDS ON FACTORS MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE NUMBERS OF CHICKS HATCHED. HATCHERIES ARE GENERALLY MULTIPLIERS, AS THEY ARE WILLING TO SELL ANYTHING THEY HATCH FOR PROFIT. BREEDERS ATTEMPT, SOMETIMES WITH SUCCESS, SOMETIMES NOT, TO IMPROVE THE VARIETY OR BREED THEY ARE WORKING WITH. TO A TRUE BREEDER,PROFIT MOTIVE MAY BE IMPORTANT, BUT IT IS SECONDARY TO THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE LINE ITSELF. JUST MY OPINION, AND I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHERS.

[katschicks]

(Quote) SOME JUST FEEL THERE IS SOMETHING INTRINSICALLY AND ETHICALLY WRONG ABOUT PURCHASING A BIRD ONE DAY AND SHOWING IT THE NEXT TO GET SOME KIND OF CREDIT FOR THEMSELVES. IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE WORLD WE LIVE IN WHEN SUCH BEHAVIOUR BECOMES COMMONPLACE AND ACCEPTED AS NORMAL Well number 1 if you buy a bird 1 day and show it the next I don`t think thats possible. Entrys close before that . And as I also said in my post , folks figure out real quick when a person does that. Simple to me , if you think a buyer does that , don`t sell them any birds. (Quote) DEPENDS ON FACTORS MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE NUMBERS OF CHICKS HATCHED. HATCHERIES ARE GENERALLY MULTIPLIERS, AS THEY ARE WILLING TO SELL ANYTHING THEY HATCH FOR PROFIT. BREEDERS ATTEMPT, SOMETIMES WITH SUCCESS, SOMETIMES NOT, TO IMPROVE THE VARIETY OR BREED THEY ARE WORKING WITH. TO A TRUE BREEDER,PROFIT MOTIVE MAY BE IMPORTANT, BUT IT IS SECONDARY TO THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE LINE ITSELF. JUST MY OPINION, AND I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHERS. Ok. Question ? If you are a true breeder why would you need to hatch 4 or 5 hundred chicks to raise several good ones. You should be able to do it with a lot less chicks. And yes I do agree if you have a breed or variety that is new you may need to be a multiplier for awhile. But for how long is the question. Rog

[micofwis]

Certainly it is possible to purchase a bird one day and show it the next. You don't have to have physical possession to send in an entry. I have personally seen birds entered that were delivered from the seller directly to the show they were entered in. As to the second question dealing with hatching hundreds of birds - it depends on the level and rate of progress the breeder is satisfied with. I don't think any of us has ever seen a perfect bird. Regardless of the number hatched, the very best tend to come in clusters of one or two birds in my experience. With today's feed prices, I don't think the average breeder/fancier is going to be foolish enough to hatch a big surplus of birds he doesn't need and can't or won't sell.