Never enough politics (catchy huh)

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

I was happy to see the thread about ABA candidates and that it evolved into a specific discussion. I am sure that candidates appreciated the views on the "points" and it probably got some people thinking about the whole system. I was also happy to see the discussion locked - it had run its course.

However, as I have stated before, this is a crucial time for the exhibition poultry hobby. In fact it is a crutial time for the entire backyard poultry scene. I intend to continue bringing up subjects that are of concern and will be informative to both the candidates and the members. In my mind it is that crucial.

Many times I have said that the business of the ABA (or the APA for that matter) is to "grow the hobby". If the hobby is growing the needs of the new and existing members is being fulfilled, the organization is serving and being served. Will venturing into new areas be best for the hobby?

There are also those that feel that the effort should be applied to maintaining the hobby much as it has been in the past. We certainly have a great tradition to uphold but will that heritage project us into the future. For myself - I haven't been in the hobby for nearly fifty years without being somewhat of a tradionalist.

Which do you think is the wise course of action? Candidates ... Members.... Bystanders.... Generally Opinionated Persons.... Anyone?

Speak up!

[MattL]

“Change is inevitable, success is not”
I seen this quote somewhere and I love it. We have to find a balance between new things affecting the hobby and our traditions. We live in a fast paced world and those who think we will be able to keep cheap entry fees while having the judge do everything but write a 4 page essay about their bird are going to be disappointed. Things have to change and I know this from my business experience. How many of us used a computer to do business 20 years ago? Without any specifics Neil, I am just generalizing but you can bet that Jeff Halbach and I know the value of technology from our business experience and what it can do to help the ABA and the fancy! Some people fear it and they will left behind. To sum it all up; We will see change in the poultry fancy in years to come, Will we survive it, is the question?

Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA!

[Pathfinders]

How many of us used a computer to do business 20 years ago?

Um, fwiw, me. :D

My husband and I joke that we've been on the bleeding edge of computer technology all our adult lives (I first hopped on the Internet in 1989, back when "The Source" was the forerunner of CompuServe, where I worked for about ten years as a "Sysop.")

I think that with the right leadership at the helm, the ABA can continue to look towards the future, using available technology to improve the services available to members. In the last ten years alone we've seen huge advances in services migrating to the Internet: how many of you pay your bills, do your banking, shop for items online? A solid foundation in technology will help ensure the success of the ABA, leadership that is not afraid to use it, and is willing to push the envelope even will be crucial to that success.

One of the things I have discussed with Karen and would like to see implemented is the ABA opening and using a PayPal account for all online transactions, including membership renewal and store purchases. It's a simple thing to do, and I feel would greatly increase the ease with which transactions are completed (and lessen the burden of paperwork on her!)

As well, one of the things I have offered to help the ABA investigate (and which I've done some homework on) is the concept of on-demand printing of various publications (the books the ABA publishes and sells.) Rather than print generic runs of say, 5,000 books at a time, submit them to an on-demand service that will print one when we need one. That will reduce inventory, overhead, expenses, and ensure the ABA doesn't wind up with a bunch of books that are gathering dust in the Sec/Treas.'s basement.

There are a number of other things that could be improved in this manner, I am sure.

Matt, is there a Technology Committee? If not, why don't we start one? I'd be happy to help.

Laura

[robin416]

Growing the ABA to address today's world is a smart business move. The internet is how I've met quite a few other poultry folks. I can not travel, whole nother story, so the net has been a life line for new blood lines and breed clubs. As stated in our fast paced world getting the ABA's name and brand out there is important. If not for the net I wouldn't even know it existed.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Growing the ABA to address today's world is a smart business move. The internet is how I've met quite a few other poultry folks. I can not travel, whole nother story, so the net has been a life line for new blood lines and breed clubs. As stated in our fast paced world getting the ABA's name and brand out there is important. If not for the net I wouldn't even know it existed.

I know that candidates Halbach and Lhamon are of the opinion that the internet is a big part of the sucessful future of the ABA. The of cost, the speed, the exposure are all positive elemnts that need to be utilized.

[goosedragon]

"Pathfinder wrote,
"One of the things I have discussed with Karen and would like to see implemented is the ABA opening and using a PayPal account for all online transactions, including membership renewal and store purchases. It's a simple thing to do, and I feel would greatly increase the ease with which transactions are completed (and lessen the burden of paperwork on her!)"
Due to some past problems I have had with PayPal, I will never use it again! I understand that they were bought out by one of the big sales sites and may have cleaned up their act by now, but once burned....
I will use my own credit cards where they are allowed, because of the safeguards built into credit cards that were totally lacking in PayPal (I was charged for transactions I never made). With a regular credit (not debit) card I can dispute any charge and it is up to the merchant to prove the tranaction. With PayPal (at least when I delt with them) I had to disprove the transaction which is pretty much impossible.
If PayPal is the only option, I would fall all the way back to paper orders and going to the post office for a money order or do without. Paper orders are going to put more of a strain on these overworked souls..~gd

[micofwis]

There will be those who adapt readily to available technology, and there will be those who prefer to do business the way they always have. Choice is good; different options should be available.

[cmaddalena]

Just a small note on technology. Although it is a WONDERFULL thing, it does not take the place of everything. I asked about an APA e newsletter at Indy, (ya I know it was 2 years ago.), and the response was a no. At that time the membership felt that the printed word was *better* for what ever reasons, which is fine. I implemented the IWBA e newsletter and it was a flop, maybe me, maybe the newsletter, maybe both, in any event, members enjoy recieving a hard copy in the mail. I recieve an e newsletter from the Plymouth Rock club, I like it, but I also like the printed word.
In a time of shrinking funds and in some clubs memberships, the e newsletter saves lots of time and money with printing, compiling, postage etc. As far as pay pal,, I do not know the details so cannot give an opinion, however, writing a check and dropping it in the mail is quite easy for me.

[Bob308]

I feel the e-newsletter will have to be a members choice but even if half of us do it it will save money.

I like Pay pal. I have used it probably 1000 times in the last 6 or 7 years and have had no problem with it. In fact they refunded money to me when I was stiffed by someone. When choosing a vendor I always give the Pay pal vendor the upper hand.

The Fancy will have to use the Internet if it is to survive and grow, I don't think anyone will argue with that. There will be those who will want things to stay simple and basically the same and I feel there will be a way to accommodate them, but for the most part the infomation hiway is the only way for us to spread the word and educate those who are interested in poultry.
The exhibition poultry world was dieing here in Texas and thru the Internet we now have a renewed interest in it. Our exhibitors list is growing and we have new clubs with new shows. All our show entries have increased by 30-40%.

FWIW- From what I have experienced and know I feel Matt has the ability and the personality to help bring the Fancy into the 21st century. If that is his main agenda then I am all for him.

[Bob308]

Since we have covered the easy subject of the Internet, maybe we should address some of these other items

1. Make the ABA a nationally recognized participant in the NPIP.- Can an the ABA do this or does it have to be a person. If it must be an individual will he be appointed or elected?

2. Strive for the ABA to have an active voice in all government regulations affecting exhibition poultry and hobby. Haven't we been doing this? I know there have been reports from envoys sent by the ABA

4. Require all semi-annual and national meets to be judged by ABA licensed Judges. Has this been a problem? I have not heard or seen anything, and I am sure that someone would have screamed about this by now

5. Work to place ABA national meets where maximum membership exposure can be gained- Uh Oh..... I have a feeling I know where you are going with this but please explain your game plan.

Since it seems that there is more traffic on this forum than the blog I thought i would pose my questions for comment here, especially since Neil can't get enough politics.

[MattL]

Thanks Bob,
We hope to do some new things with the ABA site and I have promised to see it thru regardless of what happens in the election. One thing the transition to more of an online based format will allow us is the ability to offer a two tierd membership. We could offer a membership that is completely electronic for a better price than a traditional mailed membership. Fairly, it will allow those who choose not to embrace the technology to continue as always and those who do to realize a cost savings in membership. I have worked with several breed clubs and they need a way to reduce costs to survive. This transition to online based membership can do this.
MattL

[MattL]

1. Make the ABA a nationally recognized participant in the NPIP.- Can the ABA do this or does it have to be a person. If it must be an individual will he be appointed or elected?

Our goal is to have a voting member on the NPIP board representing the ABA

2. Strive for the ABA to have an active voice in all government regulations affecting exhibition poultry and hobby. Haven't we been doing this? I know there have been reports from envoys sent by the ABA

You are correct Bob; all we have now are reporters who simply tell us what happened. We need someone who has input on what has happened

4. Require all semi-annual and national meets to be judged by ABA licensed Judges. Has this been a problem? I have not heard or seen anything, and I am sure that someone would have screamed about this by now

We want this reinforced and hopefully gain some more ABA judges from those who just have an APA license. We want to actively encourage them to become ABA licensed also.

5. Work to place ABA national meets where maximum membership exposure can be gained- Uh Oh..... I have a feeling I know where you are going with this but please explain your game plan.

There has been a problem in the past where meets were placed in locations where very few birds were entered and even fewer members were present. This actually cost the club money to hold the meet and looks real bad for the ABA. I am all for a National Meet or Semi Annual being held in every district but they have to have the numbers to support it.

Since it seems that there is more traffic on this forum than the blog I thought I would pose my questions for comment here, especially since Neil can't get enough politics.[/quote]

Once again, Jeff and I have make our ideas public in advance of the filing deadline so we could get membership input. We both had an article in the ABA Quarterly and we will continue to actively ask and answer questions throughout the process and if elected we will always be accessible by the membership via email, reg. mail or telephone. I monitor this board for Tim, the ABA Message Board and all the CROHIO message boards and try to answer questions ASAP. Thanks for your interest and comments!
Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA
http://aba2009.blogspot.com/

[jhalbach]

Good questions Bob;
1.I see person or as many people as we can get appointed as voting members of NPIP committees with the backing of the ABA.
Hopefully they will be appointed by our elected Board.
2.These envoys have not had a vote on any matters,we need to be voting and helping to set the agenda,not just
visitors.There was an ABA member who was a voting member at last years meeting,but he was not there representing
the ABA-see article on page 269 of 2008 yearbook.Our wish is to have the ABA looked upon as the leader in exhibition
poultry avain health issues.
4.The ABA sponsors the ABA awards shouldn't we have our Judges pick the winners.
5.There is a cost to the ABA for these meets,plus the Officers individual costs to attend.We need to move the meets around,but
there needs to be numbers of birds and ABA members to justify the expence.

[MG17]

I do have a question on a statement that has been made in this thread. Not trying to be a S*** Disturber as I do recall some of the stuff that was asked of me when I was in an office... but ... here goes. If the association places a national meet with in an area that does not get a big entry ... how does it cost the Association money. Just a Question. To my knowledge neither national club puts money ( other than in the awards that never gets into the host clubs hands) ( whether there are 2000 or 10000 the awards are the awards...to my knowledge) out to the hosting club. Other than small sales with regard to selling ABA wears ie books and T shirts ect. Where is the loss of money? Whether it is in the east or the west north or south... many with in the board will occur cost to travel to the Semi or Annual meet. In my opinion moving about the country ( Continent) it gives the association exposure . Not sure why we are so focused on huge numbers equaling large success. I enjoy judging and exhibiting at the big ones don;t get me wrong... but the smaller ones are fun as well. On all other topics of this thread I am pretty much in sync with....Anyway just a question from a normally quiet Canadian....

Troy Laroche
ABA / APA Judge & Life Member

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Good to see you here Troy!

For those of you who do not know this guy suffice to say that he is a highly regarded poultry judge and breeder, flower and garden hobbiest, pigeon fancier, businessman and all around fun guy to party with. Hellofa guy. He has also been a director of both the ABA and the APA representing Canadian members.

The point here is Troy that to "grow" the hobby exposure is needed. Maybe a placing national meet in Montana or Nevada or the Yukon occasionally would seem fair treatment to the members in those areas but what does the hobby gain in the big picture?

There are a lot more members to be serviced and new members to be attracted at a 2,000 bird plus show than there are at a 500 to 1,000 bird show. That is where the big meets should be placed. Certainly members living in the Rockies or above the Artic Circle deserve something but really isn't awarding semi annuals and national meets to them wasting potential in the Great Lakes area, New England or the Midwest?

Something else I have noticed lately - smaller local clubs do not seem to be to interested in have another semi annual meet after their first experience. Some have even sworn off national meets. I guess the point here is that hosting a big association meet is sometimes very costly to local clubs in terms of money, manpower and other resources.

Candidates-
What ideas do you have that will serve the few and the many with regard to this subject?

[jhalbach]

Thanks Troy for your interest.
We all know that whatever the size of the show, there are fixed costs involved for the ABA.These are mostly secretarial
travel expences and the cost of the table with shipping merchandise early-and shipping unsold merchandise back.These are
fixed costs no matter what income is generated from sales.
The ABA depends on the table sales to cover the costs of the show.This includes Secretary travel, the office prep time
with agendas, and the time it takes to put it all together as well as the awards themselves.The ABA runs a tight fiscal ship;
it doesn't take much to send it off course. Our checks and balances really do check and balance, and a Semi or National
should help the association with stronger table sales. I have found the larger clubs tend to be more organized and are sometimes
more able to help out by paying for the secretary's room for example.
One of the larger factors, which many people do not consider, is the Photo Finish. What I mean is that the Semi and National
meet Champion Bantams grace our yearbook cover. What an honor! When the Directors voted in the Classic-Bronze-Silver
and Gold star categories, larger classes carry more weight. And the larger classes are what the highly competitive Bantam
Breeders want. It is just an assumed leap that our 2 "BIG" meets would be placed with clubs that can cage lots of birds.
We would not want an ABA member turned away because of a lack of cooping capacity.
I agree that the ABA needs to be promoted at all shows, big and small , which is the job of the State and District Directors.
I do not think we are talking about only one show being the big one. There are many sizable shows in the country, and many do put in for the meets, but only one can be chosen. The only sure-fire way to insure that the meets get placed around geographically is to put the meets on a rotation basis and absolutely choose a club bid from the district in question. The ABA used to do this, but had instances where no bids from the required district were submitted. That was not a good situation.The final say in where these meets go is up to theDirectors.

[MattL]

Great to see you here Troy! Jeff pretty much said it all. I view the ABA/APA Nationals and Semi Annuals as the cream of the crop of the fancy. I try to attend as many as I can and make several road trips every year. I enjoy getting out and seeing birds and people in areas I normally do not get to see. I have no business interest in the fancy so I cannot write these expenses off on my taxes. As a former business owner, I know the club needs to make money at the meets. We have two chances a year to do this. The high cost of travel has limited the number of candidates for both clubs and I feel that is a loss. I hope to work to make sure we have good bids in the District that is up for a rotation for either a Semi or National. I know from my breed club and show secretary experience; sometimes clubs are unaware or somewhat afraid of undertaking one of these larger meets. If we can convince some of the larger shows in the districts to host one of our meets, all will benefit.
Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA
http://aba2009.blogspot.com/

[cmaddalena]

If we rely on numbers for a National, Semi Annual or District Meet, then many parts of the country may be frozen out. Paid membership entitles one to all the opportunities offered by the association. If individuials are not given an opportunity to participate, and I do not mean driving 2,000 miles to a meet, then there may not be enough reason to be a part of the association, what ever the association is. I read on here of some of the shows with 5,000 bird limits, having over 1,000 waterfowl, being the LARGEST show in the universe, but without the numerous smaller shows across the country, usuallyy 300 - 800 birds, even the BIGGEST shows in the universe would not be able to sustain a National organization. I remember when the Texas Association of Poultry Clubs was going great guns. There were 10 - 20 shows in Texas every year and I was told by an officer that they averaged 500 birds. I am hopeful more individuals access this website to read what is being written , it may be an easy decision come voting time.

[Bob308]

Good to see you here Troy!

For those of you who do not know this guy suffice to say that he is a highly regarded poultry judge and breeder, flower and garden hobbiest, pigeon fancier, businessman and all around fun guy to party with. Hellofa guy. He has also been a director of both the ABA and the APA representing Canadian members.

The point here is Troy that to "grow" the hobby exposure is needed. Maybe a placing national meet in Montana or Nevada or the Yukon occasionally would seem fair treatment to the members in those areas but what does the hobby gain in the big picture?

There are a lot more members to be serviced and new members to be attracted at a 2,000 bird plus show than there are at a 500 to 1,000 bird show. That is where the big meets should be placed. Certainly members living in the Rockies or above the Artic Circle deserve something but really isn't awarding semi annuals and national meets to them wasting potential in the Great Lakes area, New England or the Midwest?

Something else I have noticed lately - smaller local clubs do not seem to be to interested in have another semi annual meet after their first experience. Some have even sworn off national meets. I guess the point here is that hosting a big association meet is sometimes very costly to local clubs in terms of money, manpower and other resources.

Candidates-
What ideas do you have that will serve the few and the many with regard to this subject?

I am sorry Neil but this sure smacks of an elitist attitude, at least Jeff is trying to put a political spin on it to say it is fiscally responsible. The ABA is for all members even the little people on the outer reaches of the realm. How are they to get excited about being a member if they feel that they are as unimportant as you are making them out to be. Why are the people in Ohio missing out if the people in Montana are let into the fun.
One of the statements that I have seen twice lately is that there should be fewer shows and larger shows. While I total enjoy the MegaShows as much as anyone I hope we don't loose sight of what the Fancy is really about. Friendly competition,Good company and well bred birds. You can't put a size limit on a show to find these. Just as there is a lot lost in a big city, there is a lot loss in a big show.
The few big shows are important but the many small shows are where the heart of the fancy is, because they are doing it for the fun, not the notoriety of having the LARGEST show. And they should be rewarded a Semi-national every once in a while too.
Just my opinion

Bob Choate

[MattL]

Bob and Chris,
I think we may be missing the point. No one is advocating shows not being held by rotation in the various districts around the US and Canada. The way the current system is designed is that these Semi Annual and National meets are voted on by the officers in attendance at the prior Semi Annual or National meet. The relatively remote locations limit the ability of some officers to be able to attend thus very few get to vote on these meets depending on location. The past several years there has been a lack of interest in even getting a show to host these meets thus they have been opened up to districts not in the rotation. We need to do a better job of soliciting meets from the District in the rotation. This can be a large or small show and there are several items that need to be looked at on the bid request in selecting this location. I believe that all Officers should have a vote on these two big meets and not be limited to those who can attend the meeting. I have often seen shows get these meets that probably would not have gotten them if all Officers could have voted. The Officers and Directors represent the members in their District and not allowing them a vote because they cannot attend strips them of this representation. It limits the quality of candidates for these offices because of the financial and time requirements to attend these meetings. I use my vacation time and personal funds to travel and attend these meetings and I make as many as I can. Should my District suffer if I cannot attend? I brought this issue up in Bloomington last spring and will revisit it in Lake City in Jan. I know the majority of the members that I have spoken with are aligned with their Directors being able to vote on these meets even if they cannot attend the Semi Annual or National meet.
Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA
http://aba2009.blogspot.com/

[Bob308]

Thank you Matt for your reply and I agree with your reasoning because you are following the rules and protocol. On the surface I think what you are suggesting is good.

If you go back and read Neils post you will see he is in favor of the show with the biggest entries getting the highest consideration. If a district doesn't have a 2000 bird show on it roster then you ship to the next District till you get to one he feels is deserving, preferably not above the Arctic circle or Montana.

Bob

[katschicks]

If you go back and read Neils post you will see he is in favor of the show with the biggest entries getting the highest consideration. Actually I agree with the above post. I really think you need the "BIG " show with a club that has the biggest entrys. Other wise all you have is a bird winning National Champion in a small pond. Not a bird winning National Champion in an ocean. But if you are content to win in the pond go for it. Rog

[cmaddalena]

All individuals pay the same dues, just because there is a bigger concentration in a geographical loacation does not mean they should be given preferance. Again, I am hopeful that more people read these postings it will help them at voting time.

IWBA Secretary, AND ABA Life Member

[MattL]

In reality, we know not every National or Semi Annual will be a big show. Frankly, most of the big shows do not need these meets to be big shows. An example, the biggest waterfowl show of the year was an IWBA Special meet. These meets need to be placed according to the rotation and if no bids are placed from the district in the rotation, then all officers need to be able to vote on the meet bids regardless of attendance at the deciding meet. This is pretty much Democracy in action. I hope all members are reading these boards also Chris, as Jeff and I welcome your comments and inputs and we have been out there soliciting them for some time. We have yet to hear anything from our opponents. Neither of us have a business interest in the fancy, we are volunteering our services to work to keep the fancy alive and thriving. If we are off base, then the voting membership will decide. From the feedback and comments I have received so far, I think we are on track.
Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA
http://aba2009.blogspot.com/

[dakers]

Well said, Matt.
Doug A

[Rich]

I understand the desire to have the national at shows with bigger entries however I also agree it is important to move them around the country. The bylaws currently lays that out, but I know what Matt said is true, often they don't even get bids from the district and they end up being opened up. I would hate to see the national in just a few locations over and over again. It would not be good for the fancy. How big does a show have to be to warrent the Semi or the National meet? I've seen some nationals with fewer than 1000 birds. While that is a shame, it needs to be realized that to those members that were able to participate in that national meet, it meant a lot and may have justified being a member of the ABA. I don't raise bantams personally, but I am a member of the ABA because I like what the organization has done for the fancy and I support it for that reason. Has any thought ever been given to having bids be submitted electronically and having the district directors vote on the bids electronically? It most likely is in the bylaws that the vote has to be made at the annual meeting, but what about allowing district directors who can not attend, call in and vote via cell phone or by email? We have more technology available to us than ever and if we are going to move forward in the fancy, perhaps we need to start thinking ahead as to how we can better represent the entire association even when they may not be able to attend the meetings personally. It can be done. Rich Barczewski

[MattL]

You hit the nail on the head Rich! That is exactly what I want to propose and then all members will get representation on this matter.
Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA
http://aba2009.blogspot.com/

[Bob308]

For the record Matt, I have no problems with what you are proposing, like I said -on the surface it makes sense. But just as your original mission statement on this needed to be discussed so we could be clear on what You are proposing, so should the choices for the ABA meets and that is where it might bog down a little.
One of the good things about live discussion is more can be said and understood. The problem with these electronic discussions is that they are one dimensional and can be misunderstood if you do not know the person on the other end, sometimes even if you do. There may be more to picking a site for a meet than - Here is the list - A B C- what is your choice? But then I feel you know that.

For me I am glad this discussion ended up where it did,and not where I (and others ) thought it was headed.

Bob

[MattL]

You are correct Bob, there is a whole lot of politicking behind the scenes once the prosepctive sites are announced. If all Directors and Officers have a vote, then the process is fair. That's pretty much all we can ask for.
Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA
http://aba2009.blogspot.com/