APA ?

[Duk]

Dues are due. Am I the only one that didn't get a yearbook or quarterly? I'm beginning to wonder if I made a mistake by joining.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Ithink you will get more bang for your buck with an ABA membership.

[Bob308]

Yes Neil I agree, but we still need to support the APA until they join us in the new millennium.

Maybe Sam can speak up and inform us about our yearbooks. I thought they were on the way.

Bob

[batesbrowns]

Hello, I called about two months ago and pat said they were having some trouble with the printing.
but it seems this problem is becoming a chronic one for the APA.I belive we should support them and in doing so they should hold up their end of the deal.I agree you will get more for your money with an ABA membership seems they are a little more organized.
thanks for your time

[MattL]

As an ABA Director and APA/ABA Life member, I fully support the APA. They have made great strides in reorganization and the Yearbook is one of the last things they need to fix. The President and Vice President are very accessable and will answer any questions or concerns you have. The hard working Sec., Pat Horstman, has done a great job sorting thru the piles of paperwork she inherited from the turmoil of the past. Have some patience, they will get it worked out, better yet volunteer to help:)
Matt Lhamon
Halbach/Lhamon for the ABA!
http://aba2009.blogspot.com/

[Bob308]

One of the blessings that the ABA has is Karen Unrath and her faithful assistant Cheryl Barnaba. We are very fortunate to have such a team. Their energy and dedication is what makes the ABA work. You can tell that they enjoy each other and what they do. I hope we have them for some time.

Presidents, VP's and directors can come and go but a constant good secretary is what makes a club work. That is where all the real work is.

Bob

[batesbrowns]

Matt,
I too fully support the APA and ABA I know the APA has had a lot of turmoil in the past and pat has her hands full of paperwork and i applaued the officers for all the progress made since that time.Thanks

[Rich]

I am a member of both the APA and the ABA. I don't really have bantams (even though my kids do), but I like what I have seen in the ABA over the years, especially their greater involvement in the health issues that have plagued us in the mid Atlantic region. Both clubs need to learn to work together to the benefit of all poultry enthusiasts. Being an officer in a group like the APA or ABA is thankless and I don't know how the secretaries do the jobs they do for the money they receive, but I am thankful that they do. I hope that with every election, these groups will get closer and closer. I don't want them merged, but the things that affect one group definitely affect the other and speaking out against some of the things that negatively impact the fancy can only be helped by a unified voice from the fancy. I just renewed my membership in the APA for 3 more years and my intention is to continue to support both groups.

[micofwis]

I am a life member of both organizations. The ABA has a long history of excellent Secretaries going way back before the computer age. Fred Jeffrey held the office when I started and he was outstanding IMHO.
The APA, on the other hand, has had troubles and scandals aplenty over the years. I truly hope the present group of officers can set the ship aright - and I feel they will. It has to be a tremendous amount of work and attention to detail for very little pay when figured on an hourly basis. Patience is a virtue.

[Duk]

OK, I can live with the fact that I haven't benefited personally by paying APA dues. Is there any benefit to anybody or anything, or is the money just wasted?

[robin416]

Maybe we should stop supporting them. Let the APA get its act together from all the old stuff by not continually feeding them new stuff in the form of dues and expectation of the APA actually following through on its obligations to the members.

Can you hear the frustration in that statement? But there is some validity to what I said. There is a mtn of unfinished business from years past. Can you imagine what its like trying to fix things past while trying to do current business? That or get some volunteers up that way to step in and fix the things past and let the current secretary focus on the things current. That makes so much more sense then the way its going now.

[Wyandotteman]

I am extremely frustrated as well. Am I going to stop supporting the organization I have supported for over 40 years? (Absolutely not)

I am getting sick of the excuses for the points not being updated, especially when you provide documentation and have done all the work. I am also tired of the annual excuse for the yearbook being late. These should be high priority critical goals that need to be crisp and accomplished on time.

We have a strong President and very strong Vice President, but the excuses need to stop for the above mentioned deficiencies. Its a paid position, if you need help or dont have the skill to accomplish these goals either ask for help or give the job to someone who can do it.

Also, no mention or updates on progress or plan to get back on track are ever given by the Secretary in the Poultry Press. Just silence.

I for one am tired of burying my head in the sand and believe it time for accountability.


I respect people will have differences of opinion but I think as a 40 year member my points are valid and should not be swept under the rug.

I am usually extremely patient and understanding but seriously guys , enough is enough and something should be done.

I will close with what I started with. I have been a lifelong member of the APA, I wont quit stop supporting the APA, but 2 years is enough time to get the points and yearbook back on track or ask for help. I have no idea why the quarterly is late and didnt notice.

[Brian Paul Witt]

Gosh....
Y'all reckon we shouldn't have gotten rid of Peter Merlin???? The best sec the APA has had in my few APA membership tenure.
I ain't been an APA member for 40 years, but I have been around a few years--long enough to know a good secretary.
My suggestion is to pay your dues and hope for the best. Yeah, yeah,... one of these days I'm gonna join the ABA...
I have shown poultry for 20 years or more--99% has been waterfowl/large fowl--and I've often wondered why we need an ABA. The ABA does seem to have better organisation, though.
Then again, if I want to join a club that works for its members, has dedicated members, has zealous volunteers, a simple but rewarding point system, and great organisation, I would join the OE Game Bantam club. Even though I don't raise OEGs...
OEG Bantam exhibitors have this exhibition thing down; (from the point of a show sec) they are by far the most advanced and organised.
BP
Oh yeah, and Southern OEG Bantam exhibitors don't show crap; whoever judges OEG Bantams in the South will earn their pay. They are all in good condition and they have their colors right.

[Duk]

Sam Brush visited here Jan. 7. I would have thought he would offer some encouragement.

[katschicks]

Gosh....
Y'all reckon we shouldn't have gotten rid of Peter Merlin???? The best sec the APA has had in my few APA membership tenure.
I ain't been an APA member for 40 years, but I have been around a few years--long enough to know a good secretary.
My suggestion is to pay your dues and hope for the best. Yeah, yeah,... one of these days I'm gonna join the ABA...
I have shown poultry for 20 years or more--99% has been waterfowl/large fowl--and I've often wondered why we need an ABA. The ABA does seem to have better organisation, though.
Then again, if I want to join a club that works for its members, has dedicated members, has zealous volunteers, a simple but rewarding point system, and great organisation, I would join the OE Game Bantam club. Even though I don't raise OEGs...
OEG Bantam exhibitors have this exhibition thing down; (from the point of a show sec) they are by far the most advanced and organised.
BP
Oh yeah, and Southern OEG Bantam exhibitors don't show crap; whoever judges OEG Bantams in the South will earn their pay. They are all in good condition and they have their colors right. Ok I got lost on this post. If you don`t raise bantams and don`t raise OEGB why would you join the ABA or the OEGB Club ? I was under the impression the ABA covered all bantams and the OEGB Club only covered OEGB. The APA is supposed to cover all poultry ? And they are not doing a very good job of it ? Just asking. Rog

[micofwis]

What I don't understand is this: Brian, if you have not been an APA member for 40 years, how do you know what kind of secretary Peter Merlin was? Merlin was one of the more recent secretaries for the APA.

[Duk]

Sam visited again today.

[Brian Paul Witt]

micofwis,
I've had dealings with at least 5 APA secretaries--maybe six; Peter was the one that had everything up to date and had everything caught up. I had no problem getting in touch with him and he would call me to see what he could do to help. If he got a membership on Monday, the info was sent out that week, not WEEKS or MONTHS later.

Rog,
Without the OEGB breeders, there would be no shows in the South/Southeast; they are our bread and butter. Many shows in the South are made up of about 50% OEGBs. That, and they are extremely well organised and they have their colors down. I can go to a show with 500 calls and most of the un-recognised colors are crap--not so with the OE breeders. They are serious and they don't show anything that is not worthy of type, size, or color.
I need to join their club because I am a show sec and they support us and I want to know what else I need to do to keep them coming back. And, I know a lot of them, I like them, and consider some as friends.

BP

[Sam Brush]

Well, there have been little messages coming to me this past week that there was some APA bash-fest going on up here, and apparently there is a Duk pecking at the window with some sort of inquiry. There is no real name to go with Duk, but he (she?) seems to enjoy chronicling any visits I've made to the forum. To my knowledge this person has not directly contact me or Dave Anderson about the concerns, and our contact information (e-mail, phone, cell) is all over the APA website. Duk, if you joined a while back and haven't received any quarterlies (last one was in October) then we need to hear from you so we can see about resolving whatever is causing the problem.

Regardless, I'll make an appearance and provide everyone an APA update on a couple things.

Yes, the APA yearbook is very late again :oops: , and while the reasons and status were discussed at the Annual Meet in Ventura, I believe all of the officers and Board members, including the APA secretary, are frustrated over the result. The APA secretary indicated in a January 5th e-mail that went to the board that the 2008 yearbook was going to the printer the week of January 5th. That is what we all know at this point on that front. The yearbook "project" was under direction of Director **** Horstman as Chair of that committee, and naturally included lots of involvment from the APA Secretary. If members wish to express disatisfaction about the yearbook, I would suggest that you direct those sentiments to APA President Dave Anderson (appointer of Committees) or your APA District Director. Volunteering to be the next yearbook ramrod (accompanied by a brief resume of skills and demonstrated successful projects of a similar nature) might get you more attention. :twisted:

APA Exhibitor Points - first, everyone needs to know that in my role as website coordinator of sorts I have been requesting exhibitor point updates periodically over the past year and they just did not come from the APA Secretary...until last week. Pat Horstman sent me a table of exhibitor point summaries through 2007 for posting on the web (and this was the same information that apparently was furnished to the yearbook graphic contact in the same timeframe). I have reviewed the table, made some minor corrections and fixed a few typos, and it should be placed on the APA website by our web designer shortly. This is information on all point totals earned through December 2007, and Master Exhibitor numbers where appropriate. There are 22 new Master Exhibitors from 2007. Likewise the APA Hall of Fame Exhibitors list will be updated and expanded with 4 new 2007 additions, with a total of 47 to date. The Grand Master Exhibitor information will be pulled from the website until I receive that information from the APA Secretary.

So, that's all the news from Lake Wobegon. Duk, if you would like to tackle whatever problems you may be having with your membership, please feel free to e-mail me or even use my cell (listed on the APA website...)

There's a line from the movie "Big Trouble" (2002) with Tim Allen - "I'm a Gator fan and I'm calling." In a similar fashion I guess "I'm an APA officer and I'm posting!"

See ya,

Sam Brush
APA Vice President, APA Internet Contact and Designated Forum Whipping Boy

[Duk]

Thankyou.

[cmaddalena]

Viva la APA!!

[TFF1959]

I am a Life Member of the APA/ABA and have always supported them both. I think the present set of officers needs to get things fixed ,before everyone stops paying their dues and the membership gets so low there won't be a organization to save.

I understand that the changing of the Sec. several times over the past few years was a challange. But if you can't do the job , GET OUT and let someone else take over.

The APA needs to take a few lessons from the ABA. I think Karen could get both yearbooks out on time if they would just let her have it . I think maybe its time to merge these two so we don't have all this trouble.

[MattL]

You will never see a merger. Both clubs have a unique history and tradition and need to remain seperate.
Matt Lhamon

[micofwis]

No merger. If we didn't have both, what would we have to compare and choose from? And so much less to gripe about. Brian, Peter Merlin was secretary when I sent my dues for life membership. I never received an acknowledgement (the check was cashed), and was not included as any kind of member in the following yearbook. In fact there was no acknowledgment until the next secretary took over. So I don't think he was on top of everything - and he did not seem to last long as secretary.

[Evy]

I am a Life Member of the APA/ABA and have always supported them both. I think the present set of officers needs to get things fixed ,before everyone stops paying their dues and the membership gets so low there won't be a organization to save.

I understand that the changing of the Sec. several times over the past few years was a challange. But if you can't do the job , GET OUT and let someone else take over.

The APA needs to take a few lessons from the ABA. I think Karen could get both yearbooks out on time if they would just let her have it . I think maybe its time to merge these two so we don't have all this trouble.

Don't you all love the tough talk from posters who don't have the guts to post with a name or even a state? :lol:

[Bob308]

Thankyou.

That's it? after posting a negative post and then taunting till someone comes on and explains something that is not his fault all you can come up with is "thankyou". What a bunch of hooey.

I would be willing to wager that none of the negative posters here has ever been an officer of a club or even put out a simple newsletter much less a yearbook. And if you have I would bet it was a one shot deal. What's that old saying - if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

Sam, I am sorry I drug you into this. I thought about talking to Dave Anderson about this on Sunday but I was too busy trying to figure out a polite way to ask about his judging.

Bob

[robin416]

That's where you would be wrong, Bob. I was our club secretary and show secretary. My first frustrating experinece with the APA is never having rec'd any of the needed forms to do the show reports. In speaking with another club secretary she told me that she was unable to obtain them either. This was after repeated assurances that they would arrive in time. We never saw them even months after the shows were over.

[cmaddalena]

Wow so much hostility from the midwesterners and easterners..............must be your lack of sunlight in the winter months.........In any event...........I get quick replies from both the APA Secretary and President when I e mail them. Has anyone tried to contact their District Directors or VP if they cannot get a reply from other officers? BTW...........contrary to what some may think, membership in an organization like this is voluntary. If one is so unhappy about the operations, maybe one should choose to no longer be part of the organization, either that, or run for an office to help improve the quality of the organization. I get people griping to me all the time about the job I do for the IWBA, but somehow, our membership has increased over 100% in the past three years, we have more Special and State meets then a few years ago and have multiple clubs competing for our National Meets. One reason I think we are becoming stronger is because of additional volunteers like the one in Canada who is our new webmaster and our new newsletter editor. Yes, volunteers that have taken the ball and ran with it now freeing me up to catch up on other very important items that were not dealt with in the passed. Amazing, individuals that volunteer their time to help the organization they enjoy and the hobby they love. And on that note, I am off to finish tabulating IWBA Master Exhibitors for 2008!

[Bob308]

That's where you would be wrong, Bob. I was our club secretary and show secretary. My first frustrating experinece with the APA is never having rec'd any of the needed forms to do the show reports. In speaking with another club secretary she told me that she was unable to obtain them either. This was after repeated assurances that they would arrive in time. We never saw them even months after the shows were over.

So, when did this all take place- recently?

[robin416]

November 2007 and February 2008.

[Sam Brush]

Robin - I've mined the APA e-mail archives (looking for robin416) and didn't come across anything that seemed to relate to comments about this problem associated with your show. Was all your communication directly with the APA office? By phone? I'm also not sure what show(s) you are talking about. Regardless, if you wish to e-mail me at the APA internet address we can review this and see what might be done to improve things. I seem to recall there was some confusion about District 4 meet assignments somewhere in that zone, but aside from that I'm not finding anything coming in to the APA's regular address that seems to match up with this. Be glad to talk with you about it.

A main point here is that all of the large associations as well as many breed clubs have these types of difficulties. I am also a show secretary/club secretary and I've been on the receiving end of some miscues, misdirected or unsent meet information and so forth. In my case we just worked through it and went on hoping to do better next cycle. In the end this is all small livestock activity, and nobody is going to be significantly harmed or killed as a result of some administrative snafu.

Sam Brush

[robin416]

Sam, look for any communication from Phil Gray. I think his is chiefcreekfarm. I'm not certain which email I used, it could have been bell south, yahoo, aol. But there were phone calls made to the secretary. Two by Phil, two by me. I did send an email to one other club official but there have been so many in the past year I could not tell you which one or which email account I used. Phil did relate to me that he spoke on the phone with one other officer about the packet. Again, can't tell you who that was.

In speaking with the show secretary at the other show she too related several contacts in an attempt to get the documentation. She also stated she did not recieve the packet the year before either. So please amend my statement to be Feb 2007 and Feb 2008.

This is to the group:

We can all talk about volunteering, being involved in many different activities. For some that is not an option and everyone needs to remember that. Be it physical issues, age, no other human backup to allow for anything more than their own immediate needs. If we are contributing very hard to come by dollars to support an organization and that organization has made promises and commitments then it should not be that much of a surprise that people are unhappy with the performance when it fails to materialize.

We can all forgive glitches, they happen. But at some point when do we stop forgiving them?

[Sam Brush]

Gosh Robin, that's a lot of e-mail addresses to keep track of and maybe that resulted in some of the confusion, but I will check the archives and maybe just contact Phil Gray on it. If I've correctly figured out what the other show was (Tri-Cities?), that show secretary DID receive the show packets for both shows, although in both cases they came after the show was held (2007) or the day of the show (2008), and that wasn't useful at least in terms of having the APA awards on hand to distribute to show winners. Still, the packets did get conveyed to the show secretaries, and they received show reports that could have been filled out and returned. Some changes to the way we do show packets (timing primarily) after some of those difficulties in spring 2008 have improved the way things work.

Down the road we go...
Sam Brush

[cmaddalena]

Could the APA show reports be posted online? That way show secretaries would have them readily available.

[Hummer]

Could the APA show reports be posted online? That way show secretaries would have them readily available.

The APA show reports are back on the APA website that can be printed off by the show secretaries(the ABA has always had theirs available on thier website). The APA reports were taken off for a while and it was a problem when you couldn't print your own or get one in the mail.

Hummer

[Sam Brush]

Hummer is correct - again the previous APA secretary had them taken off because unscrupulous clubs and fairs who had not paid their dues would print them off and send them in. Shouldn't have been a big problem for the secretary to check and block processing of those non-member show reports, but nevertheless he unilaterally had printable forms removed. There also were some big printing/formatting issues caused by everyone having a different printer and drivers. You should have seen some of the reports we got in that were printed off the website! Scary. The ABA has their forms up there on the web too, but they are in Word format and not exactly easy to fill out on line due to some formatting issues as well. It prints off well, but trying to fill in the slots online is challenging.
Sam

[cmaddalena]

So then whats all the griping about?

[goosedragon]

IWBASEC
"So then whats all the griping about?" Well it started because someone didn't get the yearbook and/or quarterly they expected. I didn't either but I moved and didn't leave a forwarding address (the old address still works though) Basically that is all some of us want for our dues. My simple solution; no or late pubs = no or late dues! But I don't have points to worry about either.~gd

[Duk]

So then whats all the griping about?

The squeeky wheel gets the grease. This is the most information we've gotten in a long time. Some people even got to see the two posts Sam deleted this morning. I think this whole thread has helped the APA.

[Sam Brush]

OK Duk, get ready for the Crisco... :twisted: Just think, you get all this for a measly $15 per year dues! I haven't yet really learned when you joined (maybe just this fall?) and whether you received any quarterlies yet, or you're just waiting on both the next quarterly and 2008 yearbook. You haven't matched the one member who had me send a copy of the latest constitution and bylaws along with a synopsis of our mission statement and BHAGs (Big Hairy Audatious Goals) for the future. Those Ameraucana breeders can be challenging! :lol:

Just so a bunch of you lurkers aren't left needlessly wondering what those clandestine deleted posts were that Duk mentioned, I crafted a fairly lengthy one for Robin around 4:00 a.m. with a brief follow-up one and then realized after I posted it that some of my assumptions about which shows she was talking about weren't quite correct, so I yanked 'em. That'll teach me to do things with the first chorus of crowing and before the first cup of tea! :roll:

I almost feel like I should be like Bill O'Reilly and give you some sort of APA trinket for being such a creative, thorn-in-the-side poster. A yearbook in the coming weeks will have to do, though. :oops:

Gosh I love these emoticons!

Sam