Need help fast pls w/injured geese

[threehorses]

Hey all - I just had a pair of dogs come into my place and go nuts on my geese. Unfortunately I've lost at least 7 of the 16 I had. Heartbreaking, and I'm sick over it. But I'm left with 9 injured geese invarying degrees, of course with puncture wounds. I've done the dressing and cleaning as I know how. However, I'm stuck when it comes to antibiotics. I'm not sure of the availability in my area or dosages. And unfortunately I don't have access to a scale where I can get accurate weights. My geese are commercial grade African Greys.

The drugs I suspect are available here are Pen G, the various cattle pen's, possibly Tylan (is that applicable to a wound?). Unfortunately although I'm not a huge believer in Baytril, I'd kill for some right now - will probably order online so a dosage for that would be wonderful.

Can anyone here shoot me dosages for these drugs please? I have 24 hours under my belt so I'm pressed for time. Thank you, and those of you who believe in prayer please send some to my babies. Otherwise, good vibes and well wishes are all appreciated for them.

Nathalie aka threehorses
p.s. will come back to socialize when i get this a little more settled in. Thanks again!

[Evy]

I've had good luck with some nasty dog damage using antibiotic ointments such as Neosporin. Apply it liberally & keep them quiet. BluKote is great as well & keeps the flies off. Maggots can be a big problem, too.

You can get Baytril from First State but it's expensive. http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/

You'll be surprised at how tough they are, how fast they heal.

[threehorses]

All of the living geese are still living today. One I'm sure I'll have to euthanize. One I might have to... I had to finish a bunch yesterday that weren't quite dead yesterday, and it's something I've never had to do before.

I got Pen G Procaine so now I'm just trying to verify dosages. Darn me, having horses I should always have Pen G around but didn't. I'm slacking.

Oh yeah, and the geese are African - not African Greys. (I have an African Grey parrot so I just typed that automatically). :P

The dogs weren't dealt with, unfortunately. They were too fast and took me by surprise. Although I do know which dogs they are, and the matter will be handled appropriately you can count on that. Scary thing is they left my 2 remaining hens and I'm afraid they're going to come back. (Rafcoons, old age, and a foster dog killed the last of my chickens except those two girls.)

Thanks for the reply - got some Granulex which I had used on chickens, which rocks - gets in all those little holes and bubbles out the old stuff, leaving new meds, each time you use it. Vet recommended it a long time ago and it's awesome stuff. I have my antibiotics and syringes, and I've read 1 cc/30 lbs body weight, another site said 1/2 cc for a 'bird' (probably chicken), another said 1 cc /bird (probably a chicken). So I'm not sure. Going back for some more research. Thanks again for your post, and anyone please who has an idea of Pen G dosage please pretty please let me know. Thanks!

Nathalie

[Evy]

For what it's worth, I found the Baytril box my avian vet gave me. It's 2.27% strength & she'd put .4 cc twice a day on the label. Now that was for a 1 1/2 # Call duck, so you'd have to multiply by 10 or more for a goose.
Sounds like you've got a good handle on things already.

[threehorses]

Ugh - I have absolutely no real handle on things. I went out this morning and all were still alive of the survivors. But when I got back from going for the antibiotics, I had lost another that I was expecting to lose unfortunately. Sadly, another is going down quickly which is surprising as he didn't appear to be one of the worst. I have another that looks like I could lose him in a day, but I'm hoping the antibiotics and vitamins/eletrolytes, and care will help him get back doing better. He's such a lovely boy and despite the fact that these geese aren't tame, was very friendly when I was treating him yesterday evening, even groomed while I was cleaning him.

Most of the others look pretty good and lord knows they were way more energetic today. I'd like to end up with 8 (4m, 4f) but I'm not sure the last 2 males will make it. Just praying and working as hard as I can.

Thanks again, Tim, and I see people have read this so I'll update it.

Oh btw, apparently Penicillin G Procaine is a concentrated antibiotic. It is to be given every other day (instead of daily) and I found the dosage rate was 1/2 cc/10-20 lb bird, 1/4 cc for an average sized chicken. Apparently it can be toxic to birds but this is life or death. Dog germs and puncture wounds are certainly toxic. Hopefully that might help someone down the road.

[threehorses]

Evy, thanks for the headsup on the blu-coat. I used to use Furox spray but, like most things that really work, apparently they don't make it anymore or our feedstores aren't carrying it. I got a poultry-livestock spray that guards against flies/maggots (kills on contact) for wounds but I don't like the way it applies.

Just fyi what I did... Where there was grime, I used hydrogen peroxide sparingly. (It can oxidize flesh, too, so I don't like to use a lot but it's so good at bubbling crap out). I quickly thereafter flushed the area vigorously with an iodine/water solution - stronger than the usual tea color. I used a syringe and stuck it in all the punctures and flushed them out hard with the iodine. Then I dried everything, coated wounds with neosporin, packing the punctures with antibiotic ointment. For external scrapes and smaller wounds, I used a dry powder. I'm using granulex to clean the external and shallow puncture wounds.

For the deeper punctures, I covered very lightly with gauze pads where things were worst, lightly gauzed or vetwrapped over that so it'll breathe but keep dirt out. For chest wounds, I made 'aprons' out of sheet material to cover their keels. (I'm thinking about buying cheap white kids' t-shirts and putting those over them with a hole for their wings....breathable, they can poop out of them, and they'll keep them cleaner.)

I had to stitch one who I was considering euthanizing, but stitched instead packing full of antibiotic ointment.

They're all on a course of Penicillin G Procaine at 1/2cc per bird IM. I'll give that every other day for 5 treatments.

I lost one goose that I believe lost too much blood last night. I had one I thought I'd find dead this morning, but i was hoping the antibiotics and vitamins/electrolytes would kick in and give him a boost and apparently they did because today he has moved spots and looks less sick. He's a wonderful boy, the one that tried to groom while I was dressing his wounds. That's some heart.

The rest of them, including the one with the worst wounds (who actually fought me when I said "i'm going to have to put this one down") looks wonderful today. Go figure?? Incidentally, I left the lowest section of his stitches open so that it can drain. I didn't have anything to make a surgical tube drain. But it's not draining - it's clean and smells good, like a clean wound (which isn't the most lovely smell on earth but better than smelly).

I'll have a very small flock after this, but at least some of the babies I love.

Thanks Evy and Tim for your replies.
Nathalie

[Evy]

Good to hear that it's working out. I like the T-shirt idea. It is amazing how tough some of them are, especially when we're fumbling around ''practicing'' our own version of medicine on them.

[Carla54]

If you ever need a drain tube for a wound you need to stitch and you don't have one, you can take a surgical glove, cut a finger off, cut the end off and stitch it into the wound. It doesn't have to be perfect, the fluids follow the wrinkles of the glove out and it works pretty good. My Vet once did that when he stitched up one of my horses. Said it didn't get plugged up like a tube and the horse would have more trouble pulling it out.

[HeadmUP]

A little note about Blu-kote...works great, but wear rubber gloves, and a smock when applying it. Also resist the urge to scratch your nose! It stains like the dickens!But heck, purple finger nail polish is in now right? :lol:

[threehorses]

Thank you for the idea about the gloves! I hadn't thought about that. And funny thing is - when it comes to these things, I am like a birdy-MacGyver! lol

Well today's update: all the babies are still alive. The worst-feeling one (not the worst case, but he's the one that looks the most ill) is doing really better. He' can't currently stand for more than a moment, but he's moved positions a couple of times in the stall. The next worst feeling (and actually worst case) is still doing well amazingly. The other five look pretty darn good and, if some of them didn't have weird vetwrap duct-tape contraptions on them, they'd be alright to let out. But for the sake of the flock I'm keeping them all together. They need that feeling of security and lack of stress.

So we'll see how this goes. Thanks again for all the help and interest.

Nathalie

[Dondoyle26]

I sure hope you filled these dogs up with some buckshot!

[threehorses]

I sure hope you filled these dogs up with some buckshot!

I wish. Would like to fill them up with more than that. Apparently in Houston, if I go through the city, the owners of the dogs can be charged with a class A Misdemeanor. But I'd have to prove it and, in Houston, there's heavy retaliation. I don't want to come home to a load of poisoned animals.

I do have all the neighbors looking for them with the knowledge of what they've done and what should happen to the dogs. I might have a lead on where one of them lives. So cross your fingers. I noticed skid marks in the pasture today where apparently they had chased the horses, too - serious issues with that as one of my horses is being treated for a neurological illness and must NOT be exerted.

When I did approach the dogs outside my place, they turned on me growling and barking. So they're full killers and need to be Dealt With.

Nat

[Dondoyle26]

I'm sorry you are having to deal with all this. With your horses have you thaught about keeping a male intact donkey with them when they are in the pasture? We have one and he seems to keep dogs away from the cows and horses. Only down fall both our horses are studs and donk is a stud too they can sometimes get kinda ruff with each other. But usually one horse is in the barn while one is out in the pasture with donk. But of course I dont think he will be much good if its a pack of dogs. It sucks people dont have no respect for others animals. I say people because someone is responsible for these dogs and they should be kept in a fence or on a chain somewhere. I'm not sure what the law is here in Mississippi one of my neighbors is obcessed with keeping the wolf type dogs but, then on the other hand I have thaught about putting a camera in the barn area just to see if anything goes on and if it does she will pay. Once again best of luck to you and i hope you catch the culprits. Cameras might not be a bad idea at least then you will have proof.

[threehorses]

I had thought about a male donkey - in fact, ironically, a friend of mine offered me one the week before. Unfortunately I also have two pet dogs and I've heard that they can be as rough on the 'native' dogs as they are on the 'guests'. Do you know if this is true?

The one problem with a donkey is that the donkey will be limited to about 3 acres while the geese have the whole place. I can't let them roam the whole place because it's where I live, and it makes everything just too messy and unsafe. So that's why I was considering a dog, still am. But believe me ... when I pass the donkey, I think about it. Still am - at least if nothing else for the horses. What's your thought on the family's dogs/cats/goats?

Nathalie