Geese: Mating question

[ultasol]

I have a pair of Buff American geese. They are one year old, and the male has been mounting the female, but he has been attempting to do this on solid ground.

My local library has only (terrible) basic poultry books, and online sources don't seem to be consistent. My question is this- can a successful mating take place on land, or must it be in water?

I have "the book of geese" by Holderread on the way, but I was hoping for information sooner. If it needs be to in water, I can work on encouraging them to hang out in/near the pond more often.

[Evy]

It depends mainly on the birds. For the heavier breeds...African, Toulouse, Embdens...water provides bouyancy & makes things easier for both. As long as your Buffs have access to water but don't choose to use it, you'll just have to wait & see. As another option you might offer a large kiddie pool if you don't see them connecting.

[ultasol]

Thank you. I have placed them in the kiddie pool, and the male washes himself as does the female, then attempts to mount her. The instant she realizes his intentions, she leaves the pool.

Not that I blame her.

[Evy]

If this is their first year, they may not reproduce.

[gooseman495]

My breeding pens for Touloose and Africans are on the gound and they produce fine.

[ultasol]

It is their first year. If the male is needlessly harassing the female for reproductive purposes I can separate them.

[Evy]

It is their first year. If the male is needlessly harassing the female for reproductive purposes I can separate them.

Don't do that. Geese form close bonds & separating them is stressful. The behaviour is normal, not harassment...they're geese, not people.

[ultasol]

I understand that they are geese, not people. I should have been more descriptive. She has a patch bare of feathers on her lower neck/shoulders. I do not want to separate them because, indeed, they are very bonded.

Question: Do female geese resist breeding when they are not ready to lay eggs?

[Patrick]

Are you positive that you have a male and a female? Unless she was hatched very late last fall, a female goose even from last season should be laying by now. The missing feathers in the areas you describe is a classic sign of a male which is low in the pecking order. If it is two males, with no female around, it is not unusual for the dominant one to mount the other, and of course it wouldn't be surprising that the subordinant one would leave the pool when it's attempted. If it was a female, she should be allowing him to breed at least some of the time.

[ultasol]

I am not able to watch them all of the time, and according to the book of geese, geese often mate when they are not watched. They were purchased as a sexed pair last spring. To me, they appear and act as a male and a female, although understanding the way a pecking order can affect behavioral and physical characteristics in other animals (fish, reptiles, insects) I suppose it could be two males.

The 'female' is smaller, more delicately built, much quieter (although much more timid). The 'male' is larger with a blockier head and build, a louder honk, is protective (to others).

I purchased these guys about 2.5 weeks ago from a lady who lived in the mountains. They still had snow, in fact, she decided to sell them because she didn't like them out in the snow and she didn't like keeping them locked up for the long winters. Where I live it is much warmer and is more temperate.

For those of you in colder climates with long winters, are your geese laying already? I used to live in upstate NY, and I suppose it would be similar to Rochester?

Thank you for all of the help.

[Patrick]

This woman whom you purchased them from doesn't seem to know as much about geese as you give her credit for. No matter where she is in WA, you don't have winters that are too harsh for geese. In fact, they do better during cold weather than very hot, as long as they have access to liquid water at least once a day. Locking them in, even in winter, is likely to cause more harm than good, and they don't need a warmer, more temperate climate, by any means. Geese often start laying when there is still snow on the ground. In fact, I often have problems with them laying too soon, while it's still so cold that eggs get chilled or even frozen before I can collect them. Here in the mountains of NH, most of mine have been laying for a month and a half now, some since even the end of February. There are plenty of successful goose breeders in MN and WI, and it doesn't get any colder anywhere than it does there in winter. I would call her and outright ask if the female of this so-called pair has actually layed eggs before. It may be the truth that she purchased them herself as a sexed pair last spring, but that doesn't mean that's what she got, or what she sold you. Size differences in the sexes are sometimes noticeable, but often they are very subtle, sometimes even fooling those with a lot of experience, especially among the European derived breeds. The size difference between a show type Buff, and a hatchery Buff is likely to be great enough to fool people into believing that a male from each line could actually be a pair.

[ultasol]

Oh, I know she didn't need to lock them in, it just happens to be what she did.

Maybe I do have two males. I will have to keep a close eye on them.

[Patrick]

"Oh, I know she didn't need to lock them in, it just happens to be what she did."

I know that, hence my comment that SHE doesn't know what she's doing.
They can be easily sexed by voice too, but someone else may be better able to describe it in words than I.

[littlebit6657]

I live in E. WA, and my geese have layed well over a hundred eggs at this point.

[ultasol]

These geese come from the far northeastern corner of the state, and have only been down here (the southeast portion) for 2.5 weeks.

To me they look like they are very different in body shape, structure, and vocalizations but being a novice and since buffs do not have sex-linked traits I cannot be certain.

[ultasol]

So, after reading and rereading Holderread's 'The Book of Geese' as well as any and all online tutorials I could find, I attempted vent sexing the geese today. I have sexed rabbits and artificially inseminated livebearing fish, so I figured sexing a goose couldn't be rocket science. It wasn't.

I say attempted, but I was at least partially successful. On the buff I believed was a male, I have proof positive. After brief manipulation with a lubricated finger, I applied pressure as shown in 'The Book of Geese' and out popped the corkscrew indicative of a male goose. Sweet success! I then made sure his penis retracted back into the vent without harm and put him down. He was nonplussed about the whole matter.

The alleged female was another story. 'She', while not mean, is much more timid. After finally cornering her and capturing her gently, I put her under my arm upside down with her feet between my hands, as otherwise her struggles made life harder for the both of us. In this position, I tipped her tail towards her back and used the finger again. She flipped. After she calmed, I tried to expose her organs. I believe her to be female, but she wasn't holding still. I will go out on Thursday with my husband. With him holding her in a better position, I can be sure I do it right.

I was very gentle with both birds, not wishing to cause them any harm.

I am also trying to get ahold of the original owner to see if they laid eggs for her.

I appreciate all of your help and advice, and I will try to get pictures of the sexing process. If I ever run for president, the members of this board will then have pictures of me with my finger in a goose- perfect for blackmail.

Jen

[Dondoyle26]

THE PROBLEM IS THEY HAVE NOT BEEN AT YOUR PLACE LONG ENOUGH .... 2.5 weeks is not enough time for the geese to get associated with your place. Give them more time. Moving the birds will cause stress they have to get used to your property and their encloser. I'd be willing to bet thats why they are not laying and being its so late in the year maybe not at all this year.