Gelding mules

[goosedragon]

Many New England drovers use the term "Drawing Cattle" to include oxen and any hopefuls or stock in training. Early castration will cause more growth in height. Most hitch horse prospects are gelded in the first week for that reason. Tom
Is it safe to assume that Mules are given the same treatment(gelding) for the same reason? ~gd

[katschicks]

I was under the impression mules were gelded because they were a hybred and as such could not reproduse. The only documented cases of a mule reproducing have been the jenny mules. And those are far and few inbetween. Of course the jenny mules were not spayed so that may be why they were the only mules to reproduse. Rog

[BLC]

I was under the impression mules were gelded because they were a hybred and as such could not reproduse. The only documented cases of a mule reproducing have been the jenny mules. And those are far and few inbetween. Of course the jenny mules were not spayed so that may be why they were the only mules to reproduse. Rog
An intact male is unpredictable and may be dangerous - especially around a female in
estrus. Castration is for control and safety.


Brian

[goosedragon]

An intact male is unpredictable and may be dangerous - especially around a female in
estrus. Castration is for control and safety.


Brian

Yes I took that as a given, what I wondered is does early castration in mules tend to produce "growth in height" as stated by TomNY as the case in horses?

[BLC]

I guess we have a mule forum, but I'll continue this thread here. Both sexes have the potential to grow taller than either parent, however, I have no experience as to whether early castration of the male will increase this potential.


Brian

[TomNY]

Yes I took that as a given, what I wondered is does early castration in mules tend to produce "growth in height" as stated by TomNY as the case in horses?

I can only guess that it would. The extra height that can be gained by gelding a colt at a few days old is only valuable if he is a hitch prospect.All things being equal a 19hh horse is worth more than an 18hh horse.I don't think there is any added value[or even a market] for girraffe like hitch mules even if they could be created. Add to that the fact that young mules are more prone to hemorraging and rupture as a side effect of castration. Tom

[katschicks]

I can only guess that it would. The extra height that can be gained by gelding a colt at a few days old is only valuable if he is a hitch prospect. Never heard of that. Any documented proof ? Rog

[TomNY]

My bad, I should have kept better notes. Do you have documented proof that I'm wrong? Tom

[goosedragon]

Sorry I was only curious, didn't want to start a document war! I may also be misunderstanding the term "hitch horses" I thought it was the same as "draft animal" I guess it boils down to: Were the mules in the famous 20 mule teams likely to have been castrated? If so was it for control purposes or do taller animals make better pulling animals?

My uncle worked with pack mules and donkeys in Burma mountains during WWII and he definitely perfered the mules! ~gd

[katschicks]

My bad, I should have kept better notes. Do you have documented proof that I'm wrong? Tom No , but having raised a few horses over the last 40 plus years I can say that I have seen several full brothers that one would be 16 hands and the other 15:1 . Both gelded. The same with full sisters. Personaly I feel it is what ever set of genes the colt inherits is what determines the height. If they get fed for maximum growth they tend to reach there full heigth faster than colts fed less. So with a proper feeding program and the genes they inherit they will only get as tall as their genes let them. Be it 15 hands or 16 hands. No matter if they are a stud ,gelding or mare. Rog

[TomNY]

No , but having raised a few horses over the last 40 plus years I can say that I have seen several full brothers that one would be 16 hands and the other 15:1 . Both gelded. The same with full sisters. Personaly I feel it is what ever set of genes the colt inherits is what determines the height. If they get fed for maximum growth they tend to reach there full heigth faster than colts fed less. So with a proper feeding program and the genes they inherit they will only get as tall as their genes let them. Be it 15 hands or 16 hands. No matter if they are a stud ,gelding or mare. Rog

Have you ever gelded one at a few days old before the stones pull up? Tom

[katschicks]

Have you ever gelded one at a few days old before the stones pull up? Tom Nope Never needed too. They never got to aggresive at that age. But they were not mules either. Question for you sir. Do you know why you can breed a Jack to a mare and usually get a colt ? But you can breed a stud to a Jenny and very ever get a colt ? That cross is called a Henny. Has more horse looks. Still a hybred and will not reproduce. GD , not to worry , enjoy a discussion about the equine world. Not wanting to start anything. Having an old stud that is a top 100 leading sire of all time AQHA performance horses ( Living or Dead ) I think I have a bit of knowledge of how to breed a equine. And nothing to prove to anybody about horses. Rog

[emanovska]

Mules are gelded because testosterone is useless at best and dangerous in an animal that in probably sterile anyway.

When they say hitch animals they mean the pretty high stepping creatures you see at shows and pulling for hire wagons. The Budweiser clydes are the best know example.

You will find more shorter animals in use for real work. Try to get a 19 hand beast in and out of a thick forest canopy. Not saying there aren't any tall ones out there but the vast majority are shorter height wise and shorter coupled. Lot of the hitchy movement is just wasted movement. Better to step slow and sure and get the job done rather than working into a lather prancing.

A pretty team of hitch horses will take your breathe away. But a team of short, quiet animals sizing up their load and getting done does me a whole lot more.

http://homepage.fcgnetworks.net/buddy/ebpics/BETCART2.JPG

I miss this mare terribly. Lost her a few years back. You could hitch her and she would go back and forth from a log landing on her own with no direction from a driver. You could see her size up a load and know just how much effort was needed. Didn't waste time or energy. Just got it done. I rarely had much for her to do. Still she would be down at the gate each morning looking for a job. You would here a big sigh out of her when she realized she wasn't being hitched. Same horse would babysit small children all day. Sometimes I rode her to give her something to do but she wasn't into that much. I had to ride her like I drive or she would kind of get insulted with all the direction from hands and legs.

One thing to consider with tall hitchy types too is getting on and off if you need to ride. Betty was 16.1, my days of vaulting onto a horses back are done. If I had to remount in the woods I had to find a stump or stone wall.

[goosedragon]

Thank you folks for putting up with a non-horseman!
My father was a truck/subsistence farmer (that means we ate what we grew with some cash crops to try to cover other expenses) He bought a team of draft horses shortly before WWII at a very good price because horses were on their way out. Since we had tractors everybody thought he was crazy. Gas rationing kicked in and he was allowed to use his to power his truck to get things to markets. The tractors went up on blocks and he farmed the place with the team throughout the war. After that the team was just used for special projects like getting their own hay to the barn. We never did convert to bales. When I was preschool age he would have me “drive the team” while he pitched the hay onto the wagon. Of course what I didn’t know at that young age was that the team would completely ignore me while responding to his verbal commands. It wasn’t until I went to school and he would get the hay in without my help that I realized what was going on. Actually few commands would be given the horses would move up to the next pile on their own when the current pile was finished. About the only thing he had to say is “time to go to the barn” when the wagon was loaded.

We used one of those in barn hoist systems and the male would do the hoisting while the female controlled the line that moved the hoist the length of the barn. Complex but the horses knew the drill and ran the outside while my father would position the hay in the barn.
We all loved those darn horses!

[Texsnow]

It's my understanding that the early castration=taller adult is true of any mammal, so it stands to reason that it would work in mules, too, although I don't have any examples. (My dad preferred to leave colts intact longer so they'd develop more muscle mass. Less evidence to back that up, I'm afraid ;)). Removing the source of testosterone allows the growth plates in the long bones to stay open longer.

[The Yakima Kid]

The problem with John mules is that they frequently inherit the sexual proclivities and attitude of the Jack. Most Jacks are even worse than stallions; they make a Shetland stud look like a gentleman. There is a very mellow Jack at UC Davis, Action Jackson, who seems to always have a full book. The first time I saw him, I couldn't believe it - every other Jack was throwing a fit and sniffing for the girls while he was calm and quiet. Apparently he's both a mule and a donkey Jack, too - or maybe they use A.I.

[Teeklyexceele]

Maybe you didnt understand me; I never promised mule capturing in a add-on.

Should we implement mule capturing, for every one of you who reasons about food poisoning, what is realistic and what not etc., there would be 10 users who are annoyed that they have to convoy each and every mule to protect them from being captured.

I completely agree that the mules of defeated players behave absurdly, and that should be fixed in a future patch. It wont be for the first patch, since it is long out of our hands, but we might slip it in the second.

[richbar]

Most male farm animals tend to be unpredictable and have the potential of harming those individuals who are around them. While females can hurt people, when you hear of a person being seriously harmed or killed on a farm by an animal it is usually a male that is the culprit. I have heard of stallions who for years have been totally docile, all of a sudden strike out and severly bite and injure their handlers. Why take the risk at keeping them intact when it is a simple operation to castrate them. Someone was asking about the growth factor of the castrate, being larger in height than an intack animal. Most castrates can get quite large. Even capons tend to be bigger than roosters, but with most farm animals the castrates (steers, barrows and wethers) are slaughtered before they mature. Equines are the exception and the majority of castrations are done strictly for behavior reasons.

[Patrick]

I agree. Many oxen teamsters do like to put off castration for as long as possible, so that their animals put on a lot of the muscle mass in areas that only an intact bull will, like the neck and shoulders, but it's still often a well looked forward to day when the scalpel comes out.

[Steve]

Gelding was uses in pasts specially in wars due to his best resistance and power .In fact its stamina to run is better than mare horse.Some times it also equals to male horse.It was generated for the sake of a powerful strong breed with good stamina.
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[Oregon Swedes]

Just exactly how would you know that gelding makes a mule taller? You compare his height when he grows after castration to his height when he grows intact?

There is no advantage to longer legs in a draft animal. A lower center of gravity is more useful when moving heavy loads. Castration in horses and mules is done for behavior purposes, not height. Height is bred for. If a tall equine is wanted, then the breding is done using tall parents.