Appropriate Birds around kids....

[luvmycalls]

I've been hatching 100's of eggs for some friends of mine over the past 2 , months and I've been tempted to keep a few for myself. I currently raise calls, rouen's, runners, pekins, Muscovys, Embdens.

Some of the birds I'm hatching are Buff orpingtons, a variety of Chinas, Canada's, Hawaiians, Toulouse, and Swedish.

I love the Chinas, and would really like 2 of them. The kids are very involved with the animals, so I would like to keep them safe. Are any of these birds typically more aggressive. I know the natural demeanor of some, but figured since they are hatched and raised by us for the first few days there may be a difference in temperament. Any input would be appreciated

[jrorer]

I hear it actually makes things worse if the geese are imprinted on humans, especially around breeding time. Takes the fear out of them.

[7961]

It can depend on the species, breed, strain and the individual bird. Any rooster can be aggressive, but most of the Orpingtons that I have seen are pretty laid back. In general geese can be aggressive at some point, especially in the breeding seasons. Canada's are gorgeous but can be terribly nasty! I have had some that were most mellow...some tame. Wild species of geese are not for anyone. The selection of bird ultimitatly should be what you are comfortable with and the proper facility to give the best care for those birds.

[Dondoyle26]

Chinese geese can be nasty IF they imprint on humans. When mating time comes the geese take humans as a threat and attack. I raise mine with little contact until they are a month old only feeding and watering them then I will associate myself more with them. I do not handle the goslings to much. I will let my children occasionally hold one but that is now and then and rare. "knock on wood" my geese are not aggressive at all they do hiss and open wings now and again but nothing more than that they also have babies right now so that is to be expected. I raise brown and white Chinese and Toulouse. They normally go on about their business when people are around weed eating or swimming in the pond. Right now i have 16 babies with up to 9 adults supervising the little guys which is fine by me less chance of predation. My 7 year old even sometimes gets in the pond with them swimming of course the pond is well large enough the geese on one side and he on the other lol. I do have one brown Chinese gander that will come and talk to me he follows me everywhere. I do not mind him following me because if the other geese come near he will chase them off. So that is a bonus in its own way. Of course all my birds are just utility birds nothing fancy or special about them. If you keep a pair of chineese give them a shot. If nothing else the kids will learn to run lol. How old are the kids we talking about here? With me the toulouse are not as calm as the Chineese though. The tend to be more skiddish even when nesting. The chinese hens would sit through rain and shine no matter what. The toulouse on the other hand -you walk by and the female would go running. Good Luck

[KandBinMN]

We have a Buff female that is very tame, but independant. My 12 yr.old made a point to set her on her lap and pet her every day, all winter. When she laid eggs this spring, she hissed at any other bird near her nest and attacked the cats, but we would reach under her, pull out the egg and put it back without a problem. When we do cattle chores or if someone drops by, she's nosey and follows at a distance, but is not pesty at all. She's very much a watch dog of the yard. We're raisning a Buff African with a duckling this year, we'll see how that one does.
Now chickens are another story if you ask me. I will tolerate a rooster that shows any aggression after my experience last summer. I did chores for someone while they went on vacation and an Araucauna rooster that she had penned up not too well, got into the hen barn and jumped in my face. He gave me a blow out fracture under my eye, I had blood clots and major pressure under the eye from blood seepage into the sinus cavity. I ended up in the hosp. for two days on morphine. I learned a lesson or two about who your friends are too. Her insurance paid only $5,000 of the bill, my insurance kicked in after that and I'm left with several thousand in copays and out of pocket expenses. Even though she knew he was aggressive, her ins. says there is no liability and I've tried several lawyers who are afraid to battle with State Farm over this and with the rooster owner being an MD, they think she would have been smart enough to get rid of him if she had known he was a threat. Fact is, she's never owned poultry previously, has rotten buildings and thrown together pens and collects one bird after another. The rooster had chased her children around and jumped on her back - I think she knew he was trouble. Her dogs have repeatedly got out of their kennels and mauled or killed birds also. To top it all off, even though I offered to sign off if she'll just pay the remaining bills, she refuses, says it's unfortunate, but she doesn't have the money. Sorry to go on here, but just had to share my experience, yeah, I'm bitter now.
As for choosing birds, I am different than most as far as taming my birds. I prefer to have them all be very tame, have never had an aggression problem, but won't tolerate one if it arrises. I've also read that geese are not a good choice if you have small children as they have even been documented to have killed a toddler. My grandma had Can. Honks that were very aggressive and would seek her out even in the fenced garden and try to attack her.

[Patrick]

Yea, geese are just murderous, horrible animals. It's a little known fact of history that the Mayflower almost didn't make it here. I guess the geese broke out during the trip and went on a rampage before they were finally brought under control. The US Army has tested them for use in attacking enemy soldiers, but I hear that the experiments failed, because they couldn't get them to stop attacking our troops too. It is rumored that Hannibal's elephants almost refused to cross the Alps after they were attacked by a flock of Roman Tufted geese in the foothills. Luckily the riders were able to kill off the geese from a distance with their crossbows. The elephants were finally calmed, and they could continue. In some areas, geese are being added to dangerous dog legislation because of so many near tragedies. Supposedly the APA is considering a proposal to ban them from being exhibited, out of concerns for the safety of the exhibitors, judges and guests. We've already lost at least a few good chicken judges, who refuse to enter the building if there are any geese in the show hall. At least one stipulates it in his contract. One guy in the apprentice program even sued the show giving club after a particularly gruesome attack. In addition to his hospital bill, they were required to pay for years of therapy to help him get over it. Did anyone see the articles in the Poultry Press? There was an outpouring of support.

[cegs]

OMG, LOL
I have over forty adult geese, eight different breeds. And I am able too count on one hand how many times I have been bitten! I have a different kind of problem with one of my huge Africans being overly friendly when I wear my white sneakers! No joke, my sneakers must look like a big white fluffy butt to him! Wearing black rubber boots fixed this problem!~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cally
:lol:

[KandBinMN]

You guys are so funny. You're kidding about that article right? If not, I want to see it. Maybe that's what it will take to get a lawyer to take my case to pay the rest of my bills from the rooster attack. I've been told they basically need a big case looking for a large settlement to make it worth persuing. Perhaps I need to see a shrink for post traumatic stress disorder to get the money to pay the remaining bills. Crazy isn't it?
We played with our goose and gosling this evening. We just adore them. I'll never completely trust a chicken rooster again, but I love my waterfowl, and I'm not letting that incident keep me from having chickens myself either, but if one shows aggression, he goes. The one that attacked me should have been stew when he started chasing her kids around if she couldn't provide a proper pen for him.

[Evy]

Patrick kidding?? Never !!

As for ''playing with your geese " , you've had good advice here, but are choosing to ignore it, thinking yours are different. If you're lucky, maybe they will be. On the other hand, you may someday be on the receiving end of a lawsuit because of those ''friendly'' pets that have no fear of humans. Small children are no match for a goose.

[Patrick]

You guys are so funny. You're kidding about that article right? If not, I want to see it. Maybe that's what it will take to get a lawyer to take my case to pay the rest of my bills from the rooster attack. I've been told they basically need a big case looking for a large settlement to make it worth persuing.

No, it's true. Call Bill Wulff and maybe he can get you a back copy, or at least a reprint of the article. April or May 06 I think it was.

[cegs]

Evy, is right! The more you “play” with them, the more problems you will have when they are grown. And yes there are some that stay “nice”!
Since I wasn’t born into farms and farm animals, I have found out the hard way that the more you make a pet out of them the more problems you will have as an adult.
Not knowing this when we first started our farm. My kids made a ram lamb into a pet!!!! I think he is now the devil himself! Meanest thing I have ever seen! He snaps 4 x 4 fence post like tooth picks, takes out the weld seams on coral panels like butter. A logging chain is the only thing that will contain him. Our replacement ram which is the rams offspring, we did not touch or talk to. No problems with him at all. The same goes for most geese! Not all but most.

Cally

I still can’t get over how bad those geese were on the Mayflower!

[KandBinMN]

OMG- does anyone have that article somewhere? I just have to see it!! I know what you mean about some "pets" getting obnoxious. We had a steer that was such a pest as a calf and stayed very friendly, but as he got market sized he didn't know his strength.
As far as my waterfowl goes though, I'm not afraid to show them who's boss if I have to, but the reason I keep them is I love the interaction with them. My ducks are an absolute riot and I grew up with waterfowl and house birds.
If they're not tame, I'm not interested in having them. Everyone is different.
As far as lawsuits go, ha, I've learned the hard way not to do someone else's chores. Unless it's a dog bite which has a whole set of legalities of it's own I found out, most insurance companies will only cover up to $5,000 and tell you it was "just an accident" so they don't have to pay more for liability. Most lawyers won't touch the case because they're only looking for the cases that pay out huge amounts. I'm talking from experience there. If you're gonna get hurt on someone else's property, Keep it under $5,000, or make sure it's major, anything in between and you're up a creek- LOL!!
I also look into the breeds before I get them and though each individual bird will be different, I'm not going to purchase a breed that is known for aggression. That's why I have smaller parrots too, not an Amazon with a bolt cutter for a beak. I prefer to keep the tip of my nose and finger tips where they belong!!
Seriously though, I would love to see that article, sounds interesting, if anyone has it stashed somewhere.

[KandBinMN]

Just read through all replies again. Ok, I'd like to know who that judge got for an attorney. None of them around my area have been willing to take the case and I'd like to know more about that case for background. Help me out here someone. I'm not kidding. I went through hell last summer after that chicken attack. I could have lost my eye, the pressure built up so bad that the eye bulged out. The pain was so bad I was vomiting all the way to the hospital on my 3rd emergency room trip when they finally admitted me for two days (longer than I stayed with the birth of either of my kids), and kept me in a morphine haze because I was in such misery. Maybe if I can do a little research on that case and how it turned out, I could get a lawyer around here to look at my case a little closer. Thanks!!

[Patrick]

Call Bill Wulff and maybe he can get you a back copy, or at least a reprint of the article. April or May 06 I think it was.

[Patrick]

I still can’t get over how bad those geese were on the Mayflower!

Those poor Pilgrims. The persecution they endured in England, exile in Holland, and then to have to deal with a flock of rogue geese on the high seas. As if everything else weren't hard enough. But it may have been a blessing in disguise. By the time they got here, they were up to what ever hardship awaited them. I guess you could say that geese were responsible for the colonization of America.

[KandBinMN]

Seems to me I remember something in the news or in a car collector mag. about a junk yard having a few geese instead of a junk yard dog. Wish I could remember where I saw it.
This last spring my daughter and I were visiting a local sanctuary and happened upon 3 adult Honkers with a whole slew of babies across the road with no fence to hinder my camera. Everything is so tame from being fed by visitors, that even a black bird came over to beg for food. We got some awesome pics and then mama goose decided she had had enough. I heard the motion coming behind me, so I knew what was coming. She half heartedly jumped on my back and slid down. We laughed until we cried, but the poor people driving by at the time slowed way down and gawked, just horrified.

[ritterhahn]

Those poor Pilgrims. The persecution they endured in England, exile in Holland, and then to have to deal with a flock of rogue geese on the high seas. As if everything else weren't hard enough. But it may have been a blessing in disguise. By the time they got here, they were up to what ever hardship awaited them. I guess you could say that geese were responsible for the colonization of America.


Patrick, the Romans were saved by geese – aside from their effects on elephants, that is. When the Gauls tried to invade the city of Rome in 380 B.C., it was the geese that warned the Romans and then proceeded to decimate the invaders. Afterward, the Romans commemorated the event by yearly crucifying a dog to punish them for sleeping through that perilous night. In fact, the practice of crucifixion grew from the Romans’ desire to appear merciful to their vanquished foes: after all, the dog’s fate was better than being tossed to geese in the coliseum for the entertainment of the Roman mob.

If the ruthless conquerors of the ancient world were loath to expose all but the worst of enemies to the goose, what hope do we of a later, less bellicose temperament have?

I just read an article in the journal of the American Philological Association by professor Barnum that archaeologists are exploring the mysterious deaths of Alexander the Great and Attila the Hun – both of which occurred in the early breeding season of the goose.

[Patrick]

I see that we read some of the same history books.

I've never been to Italy, but I hear that the few surviving mosaics which picture the old Roman Fighting Geese are considered some of the best works of art to come out of ancient Rome.

I'm a big fan of Dr Barnum's work. Wouldn't surprise me if he uncovers a mass grave or two, with evidence linking them with early attempts at domestication of Anser anser. People today tend to think of ancient civilizations as primitive by our standards, but I'd have rather been involved with domesticating the cat or the pig. How did they ever do it? When you think that there was also some convergent domestication going on in China with the Swan Goose, it's just amazing.

[goosedragon]

Patrick, the Romans were saved by geese – aside from their effects on elephants, that is. When the Gauls tried to invade the city of Rome in 380 B.C., it was the geese that warned the Romans and then proceeded to decimate the invaders. Afterward, the Romans commemorated the event by yearly crucifying a dog to punish them for sleeping through that perilous night. In fact, the practice of crucifixion grew from the Romans’ desire to appear merciful to their vanquished foes: after all, the dog’s fate was better than being tossed to geese in the coliseum for the entertainment of the Roman mob.

If the ruthless conquerors of the ancient world were loath to expose all but the worst of enemies to the goose, what hope do we of a later, less bellicose temperament have?

I just read an article in the journal of the American Philological Association by professor Barnum that archaeologists are exploring the mysterious deaths of Alexander the Great and Attila the Hun – both of which occurred in the early breeding season of the goose.
Did you happen to catch his article of last year where he concluded that the Lost Colony at Roanoke was lost due to the importation of Weeder Geese to work the tobacco crops which were the only crops that Sir Walter Raliegh was able to interest his English backers in? It seems that tobacco seeds as well as a small supply of the golden leaf were returned to England by the ships that established the colony in 1584. The backers quite enjoyed smoking the weed but the seeds did not do well in the cool damp climate of England. We all know how hooked smokers can become, so they dispatched the weeder geese inder close confinement knowing about the dangers of the birds, and demanded that shiploads of tobacco be returned as soon as possible. The ships returned to England with the the little supply of tobacco that the colony could scrape together (mostly by stealing it from the Indians). One of those short wars delayed the ships and when they got back to Roanoke Colony in 1587 no people were found. The English restocked and switched to human slaves to work their crops and history moved on....

[ritterhahn]

Yes, Patrick, our lines of thought would seem to run parallel here. Those images you mention are in the house of Caelius in Pompeii, I think, but they are nothing compared to the gruesome scenes of geese savaging condemned criminals depicted in the mosaics of Nero’s Domus Aurea. Enough to give you nightmares.

I missed that article, Goosedragon (double whammy with a name like that, no?). Makes perfect sense, though.

I find history fascinating as it shows that despite the passage of thousands of years, man is still the same animal, with the same problems. The Latin author Varro in his book on farming (De Re Rustica) summed up the problems associated with the husbanding of geese nicely:

Quisquis ille est stultior de anseribus colendis ut se animal tam ferox, tam violentius, tam in animo saevum, tam hominibus periculosum continere pecuniae ipsius aquirendae causa posse umquam putet?

"Whoever is so foolish concerning the raising of geese as to ever admit himself able for the sake of mere money to control a creature so fierce, so violent, so savage in spirit, so dangerous to human kind?"

It seems the modern fancier’s task is to learn again what our forefathers knew all too well. I am quite sure Dr. Barnum would agree.


Richard

[ultasol]

I have a pair of Buff American geese (originally I thought they might both be ganders, but when I went to get pictures confirming my vent-sexing, I found eggs).
Most of the time they are the sweetest things. The gander in particular is quite amenable, and he follows me around gently talking to me and will crawl in your lap. After the eggs were laid, he would hiss at everyone but me, but no attacks.
Well, of course, rather than laying in the 'goose hut' the goose laid in the barn. All was well until the day they hatched. I was unaware although knew it to be upcoming. I saw her in the barn and had thought the gander was outside grazing the clover. I turned just in time to receive two hard bites to the calf and, while grabbing him to prevent further bites, got two more to the arm. As the scratches scabbed, you could see the serrations of his beak imprinted on my skin. Of course, I knew why he was acting so unlike his usual self the moment I saw a ball of half-dried fluff peek out from under the goose's wing.

Can't say I blame him. I let them have two days to hatch out the entire clutch before I removed all the goslings. While I wouldn't have minded allowing the parents to raise them, I needed to reclaim my barn from the over exuberant gander. Less than half an hour after removing the goslings, the gander was acting like a civilized gent again.

No harm no foul (or fowl), but a parenting geese is not what I would consider to be childsafe. Regardless of breed, a new parent can be quite different, tempermentally, compared to before babes.