Young Embden gander eye problem

[charlindabob]

OK, I asked on BYC in the "Goose" section and I have asked in a Yahoo "Goose as Pets" group and to be honest, I am not interested in answers from frivolous limp wristed goose diapering finatics that sleep with their goose or take it for car rides. I have probably just alienated some of you, but I would like to speak to an adult please.
Now, to the meat of my issue: I have a 9 week old Embden gander that has a slight eye problem. The skin around his eyes is somewhat swollen, it itches and it is evident by the way he rubs both eyes on his body, and the feathers mainly from the eye to the bill appear to be damp. He is paired with the same age goose that shares his pen and she has bright clean eyes. I have a 5 gallon bucket of clean water (changed every day, sometimes twice a day) and they have been on appropriate feed. Now this doesn't appear to be a serious problem (at least not yet), but I would like to correct it. I haven't the patience or knowledge to post a picture here, but if any of you would be so kind as to email me, I would be more than happy to send you a picture for your educated guess or first hand knowledge of what may have caused this and what I may do to correct it. My email is: charlindabob at yahoo dot com.
For those of you still with me, thank you.
Bob

[Angela]

OK, I asked on BYC in the "Goose" section and I have asked in a Yahoo "Goose as Pets" group and to be honest, I am not interested in answers from frivolous limp wristed goose diapering finatics that sleep with their goose or take it for car rides. I have probably just alienated some of you, but I would like to speak to an adult please.

WOW! Alrightee then....from an Adult:

Is a five gallon bucket the only source of water? No pool or pond? First mistake. Get them a $10.00 kiddie pool from Walmart and keep it full of fresh clean water. His eye can be itching for several reasons....first of which, is dryness. It's irritated. Secondly, as hot and dry as it has been, he may be getting dust and dirt in his eye....fresh water again. Thirdly, he may be suffering from allergies...more water to keep it flushed.
The guys need more water, pure and simple.
He may have been stuck or stung.....more water.
He's feathering. My embdens use their heads to preen and smooth their (most likely dry and brittle) feathers....more water.

Do you see a trend developing? If the eye does has a discharge, or is inflamed, it's most likely one or more of the above problems. If it does, you have infection. Most likely caused by a scratch or puncture. Antibiotics will be required......and more water.

Good luck with your babe.

Angela

[goosedragon]

Ok Bob now that you have gotten the rant out of your system what was wrong with the three replies you got over on the BYC goose board? At 68 I figure I am close to an adult and I couldn't think of a thing I would add to those replies so I didn't. Fyi I have never diapered or slept with a goose though my gander and I fully enjoyed a trip in my truck to a farm 60 miles away where he was to perform stud duty in return for half of the hatch. That is the trouble with rare breeds sometimes you end up with a gander but no goose or a goose with no gander.
I am tempted to copy the Uneducated advice you received at BYC but I can save it for later...~gd

[3dogs]

Several years ago I had a goose with an apparent eye infection. She was the only one with the problem, and from my memory, it wasn't quite as bad as your description. At any rate, I took her to an avian vet and was prescribed an antibiotic ointment to use for 10 days. I kept her isolated with her own water bucket during that time, as instructed by the vet. It helped in the short term, but didn't totally clear up. I went through two rounds of the medication for the goose, separated by a couple of weeks.
The vet made reference to taking a sample to send to Cornell for a better diagnosis, but neither the vet nor I followed up on that.

A trip to an avian vet might help diagnose and resolve the problem.

[charlindabob]

Yes GD, I was on a rant of sorts and the published replies on BYC were most helpful, the two emails I received were not. Me not having proper housing or being negligent or not providing the right food or water were not. Questioning my qualifications to keep geese ticked me off. I have Mandarins, not one or two, but several dozen wild colored and white and have not had the problem I described. I have purchased under advice from a zoo vet ( I took close up pictures and sent them along with a description of the problem as best I could) Terramycin which I am sure you know is a Antibotic Ophthalmic Ointment with Polymyxin B Sulfate which will help with gram negative and gram positive infections. I have administered already and will do so again here shortly.
I apologize to the 3 people for the helpful answers I received but I make no apologies for those two emails I received, I only wish I had kept them for you to peruse.
And GD, at 68, you are almost an adult!! They say you should have more patience when you get older, I at 65 find I have less with most of the younger crowd.

[charlindabob]

Several years ago I had a goose with an apparent eye infection. She was the only one with the problem, and from my memory, it wasn't quite as bad as your description. At any rate, I took her to an avian vet and was prescribed an antibiotic ointment to use for 10 days. I kept her isolated with her own water bucket during that time, as instructed by the vet. It helped in the short term, but didn't totally clear up. I went through two rounds of the medication for the goose, separated by a couple of weeks.
The vet made reference to taking a sample to send to Cornell for a better diagnosis, but neither the vet nor I followed up on that.

A trip to an avian vet might help diagnose and resolve the problem.

Thank you 3dogs. I did contact an avian vet yesterday that I had contact with when I was making a living for 30 years with exotic reptiles. I no longer have reptiles, but I have always wanted some large Embdens and thought others might have had the same issues. 3dogs, the average person would never notice a difference in his eyes, but I was aware and I thought maybe a low grade infection, but was open to opinions. Your opinion is a keeper! Thanks.

[Angela]

You're fortunate to have a veterinarian that will treat birds....there are none here.

Angela

[charlindabob]

You're fortunate to have a veterinarian that will treat birds....there are none here.

Angela

Hi Angela and thank you for your previous post. The zoo vet specializes in exotic animals including birds. The vet is several states away, but the wonders of email was a tremendous help to me. Without a proper examination and/or cultures taken, it was a best guess estimate.

[goosedragon]

Bob, Sorry but you never mentioned the emails, and yes there are people on BYC that need their butts kicked. BTW if you had unloaded over there like you did here you would be banned there. BUT you beat the odds overthere and got 3 reasonable replies (I checked, before I posted since I sometimes have Sr. moments). I don't recommend medications because I don't feel I am qualified, No Biology since highschool but I was a Chemist for the biggest Big Pharma Co. in the world now. I managed the QC labs for the plant that produced the best childhood vaccines now available. Truth is I burned out and took up waterfowl as a way to shed stress. Even agressive geese were better than some of the management I had to deal with. Ask the old timers I am much more laid back than I used to be. (almost a adult since I seem to be getting back my sense of Humor, second childhood?) I was referred to at work as the dragon and i added goose to it when I went on the internet. Exotic reptiles? check in with Jungle if I remember he has some background there.

[charlindabob]

Bob, Sorry but you never mentioned the emails, and yes there are people on BYC that need their butts kicked. BTW if you had unloaded over there like you did here you would be banned there. BUT you beat the odds overthere and got 3 reasonable replies (I checked, before I posted since I sometimes have Sr. moments). I don't recommend medications because I don't feel I am qualified, No Biology since highschool but I was a Chemist for the biggest Big Pharma Co. in the world now. I managed the QC labs for the plant that produced the best childhood vaccines now available. Truth is I burned out and took up waterfowl as a way to shed stress. Even agressive geese were better than some of the management I had to deal with. Ask the old timers I am much more laid back than I used to be. (almost a adult since I seem to be getting back my sense of Humor, second childhood?) I was referred to at work as the dragon and i added goose to it when I went on the internet. Exotic reptiles? check in with Jungle if I remember he has some background there.

gd, I admit that I sometimes go off half cocked (just ask my wife), but sometimes I get frustrated with comments that don't pertain to the question or they question your ethics. Yes sir, I like my geese very much, No sir, I am not in love with them. I give my animals more than adequate housing, good feed, fresh water, protect as best I can from predators and interact with them everyday to keep them friendly (docile). Do I talk to them, you betcha! Fanatic, I don't think so, but I've been wrong once before! I've followed many of your posts in here gd, I think I like you.....:)...........(lol) Bob

[Angela]

You guys are funny....
Goosedragon used to be quite mean, and I'm aguementative.....but we each mellow with age. Except Patrick :)...he's still mean...LOL

On the one occasion that I really had an issue with my flock, the Dept of Ag stepped in. As far as local vets go, they call me when they have a problem. Since I have no formal schooling in Ag, I find that to be extremely amusing. But I guess experience counts.

Angela

[Evy]

Coincidence time here. My Sebastapol goose appeared one morning a few weeks ago with a crusty, swollen eye. The have daily run of my 3 acre yard & I assumed she'd gotten into something irritating. The next day, the eye was shut & the feathers from behind it to her bill were gone, the skin bloody. I'm alone here, so I recruited a friend's husband that grew up on a farm. I caught her up, Mike held her, I washed it out with Boric acid solution, put a good dose of a vet prescribed opthmalic ointment in & around it & popped a couple Baytril tablets down her. She stayed inside that day & most of the next but was fine by day 3. The new feathers are nearly all in now. Items like that are a good thing to keep on hand.

[Angela]

I caught her up, Mike held her, I washed it out with Boric acid solution, put a good dose of a vet prescribed opthmalic ointment in & around it & popped a couple Baytril tablets down her. She stayed inside that day & most of the next but was fine by day 3. The new feathers are nearly all in now. Items like that are a good thing to keep on hand.

Do you still have all your fingers?!
I was with you all the way up to the Baytril tablets. I've never been able to get anything down a goose's neck. It itches, and unfortunately, they scratch. That middle nail can do a lot of damage. Got a dog doing the same thing right now.....

Angela

[goosedragon]

You guys are funny....Thanks I try to be funny you can get away with a lot more if 'you smile when you say that'
Goosedragon used to be quite mean, and I'm aguementative.....but we each mellow with age. Except Patrick :)...he's still mean...LOL

On the one occasion that I really had an issue with my flock, the Dept of Ag stepped in. As far as local vets go, they call me when they have a problem. Since I have no formal schooling in Ag, I find that to be extremely amusing. But I guess experience counts.

AngelaYep it sure does, I remember my father (finished 6th grade) talking with the people from Cornell (NY's land grant college) filling them in with some of the fine points of fruit farming. ~gd

[Evy]

Do you still have all your fingers?!
I was with you all the way up to the Baytril tablets. I've never been able to get anything down a goose's neck. It itches, and unfortunately, they scratch. That middle nail can do a lot of damage. Got a dog doing the same thing right now.....

Angela

Yep, all 10. Sebs aren't very big but I knew I'd need the extra hands. I poked them far enough down that she couldn't spit them out. Don't like giving just one dose of antibiotic but it was going to be my only chance, so I gave her a good one.

[Oregon Swedes]

I suppose I could get medication down a goose's throat if it were life or death, but it is sure easier to put their antibiotics in their drinking water. Nearly all of the powdered antibiotics are meant to be mixed with water and most of them are approved for poultry.

I just put a couple of days of Tylan through the ducklings and it didn't affect how much water they drank. I guess if you'll drink water containing goose poop, a little bit of antibiotic in your water isn't off-putting.

I wonder if you could hide a pill in a treat and trick them into swallowing it, like you do a dog. My geese look like a school of piranhas if they get any watermelon. Maybe a pill would get gulped right down with the rest of it.

[dhw]

the thing I don't like about mixing antibiotics with water is that a suck bird tends to not drink well. Waterfowl can we tough too since you need to have a rough idea how much water they are drinking to know how strong to mix it so they get the dosage they require. Pumping it down a "flock" rather than to just the bird/s that need it is also one of the major reasons we have so many resistant bacteria and why the Baytril labeled for use in poultry is not available any longer in the US. Producers were pumping it into thousands of birds that didn't need it which gives bacteria a chance to build resistance to it. Antibiotics should be treated as a guided missile instead of a nuke. A very focused dosage that is available via tablets or injections should always be preferred. I am yet to locate a local vet willing to give a script for using it off label. I guess I should just order some while it is still available online without a prescription though extremely pricey. Being the same as Ciprofloxin it should be tightly controlled.

That said I do have an indie recovering from a coon attack that is having large amounts of tetracycline pumped into her to prevent infection. Not ideal but so far has been effective. Of course she is isolated and her water intake is being closely monitored. In this case its a fine line between liver damage and something that surely would get infected without it.

[3dogs]

I had to give Baytril tabs to a toulouse gander for 7 to 10 days once, by myself. At first, I thought the vet was joking, but no... It actually worked out well. I straddled him with his tail to a wall leaving both hands free. With my left hand, I held his head and worked his mouth open, and with the right pulled a pill out of my pocket and pushed it in. No harm done to patient or nurse!