I'm easily amused...

[Patrick]

...or maybe the heat is just getting to me. There's several things that I could say about this thread, from a few different angles, but you can probably imagin most of them. The rest, well, it's still a family forum.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=226721

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

I still think that the best one over at BYC has been the year old Blue Laced Red Wyandotte LF 1 year old male "apartment chicken".

"The best way to get poultry to thrive is to treat them like what they are."

[Evy]

If you want some laughs, try the "Feeding & Watering'' threads. I've never seen so much misinformation & just plain idiocy in my life! I can only read a few before I want to scream !

[ritterhahn]

I still think that the best one over at BYC has been the year old Blue Laced Red Wyandotte LF 1 year old male "apartment chicken".

"The best way to get poultry to thrive is to treat them like what they are."

Personally, I liked this one: http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=227264

[Evy]

Unbelievable ! Can anyone imagine the harm that site is doing?

[Patrick]

Unbelievable ! Can anyone imagine the harm that site is doing?

I can. When they first started gaining momemtum, a lot of people had high hopes that we'd see at least some of them turn into serious breeders and exhibitors and help turn around the decline of the fancy. I was cautiously optimistic, but so far I just haven't seen it. They have helped us somewhat, with increased traffic through the shows, supporting the vendors, and buying birds, but they're starting to hurt us too. In at least one state, when they weren't satisfied with the answers that they got from experienced breeders, they pestered the state veterinarian's office with so many questions about testing, that they wondered what was going on, and started showing up at swaps where they never had before, swabbing birds. I've seen a lot of this with these types. They're not satisfied with a simple straightforward factual answer, so they run back to the childish crowd and get lots of handholding, sympathy and whatever else it is they're looking for. Just look at their numbers compared to ours. Why do so many idiots just relish that kind of childish crap?

I've gone from tolerating them, to wondering if we shouldn't start actively discouraging them from having any association with poultry shows. I have this fear that some reporter is going to show up at a large show, run into one of these kooks, and write an article that gets picked up by the national media about how poultry exhibitors at the Northeastern Poultry Congress or the Ohio National like to play with their little "roos", give them cute names and tuck them into bed at night.

[Evy]

I've gone from tolerating them, to wondering if we shouldn't start actively discouraging them from having any association with poultry shows. I have this fear that some reporter is going to show up at a large show, run into one of these kooks, and write an article that gets picked up by the national media about how poultry exhibitors at the Northeastern Poultry Congress or the Ohio National like to play with their little "roos", give them cute names and tuck them into bed at night.

Sadly, I've seen print & TV things already that start out seriously & factual, but end up with just such drivel. Gotta' keep the interest up & stupid seems to appeal. Look at "Reality TV" !!

[CubanLongtails]

Have you seen the new Raising Chickens for Dummies book?

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=220713

[Patrick]

I haven't, but knowing where it originated, I'm going out on a limb to say that I bet that it's titled appropriately.

[momto3boys]

I just found this site today and was hoping it would help me learn even more about our chickens. My son just recently became interested in chickens and showed them for the first time at our county fair. I'm sure they were not the best show birds in the world, but he was happy and he enjoys them. My question is....is everyone on this board so arrogant? I think you are being very rude. Not everyone is such an expert as you apparently are.

I would like to learn everything I can and I will admit that I have used backyard chickens for a lot of information. Everything I have found on there I have verified with our poultry chairpeople and they have agreed. I have been trying to find good breeders in our area, but there aren't any that I can find and I'm sorry, but I don't have the resources to be able to go across the country to get him 4H birds. Some of us are doing our best

[goosedragon]

I just found this site today and was hoping it would help me learn even more about our chickens. My son just recently became interested in chickens and showed them for the first time at our county fair. I'm sure they were not the best show birds in the world, but he was happy and he enjoys them. My question is....is everyone on this board so arrogant? I think you are being very rude. Not everyone is such an expert as you apparently are.
Well not everyone is rude, I used to be, but I made a new year's pledge to tone it down and I think I have. Some of the people here have a right to be proud when it comes to shows, they have rung up large numbers of points for having "the best of ....." at shows, some are even qualified to be poultry judges. Some are very helpful 'folks' others come across as arrogant and just don't know what you are talking about when you point it out to them.
One thing here is you may find differences of opinion but a real mistatement of facts never go unquestioned. Backyard Chickens is a little different, it is more about feelings for poultry rather than poultry facts. You can get some good information at BYC but you can often hear myths repeated over and over again until you start to beleive they are facts
I would like to learn everything I can and I will admit that I have used backyard chickens for a lot of information. Everything I have found on there I have verified with our poultry chairpeople and they have agreed. I have been trying to find good breeders in our area, but there aren't any that I can find and I'm sorry, but I don't have the resources to be able to go across the country to get him 4H birds. Some of us are doing our best I don't Show myself but if you know the breeds you are interested in someone on here can probably direct you to a decent breeder in your area, but Show birds are usually pricey.

[momto3boys]

I agree with you that some do have a right to be proud but there is a difference in being proud and being downright arrogant about it. Making fun of people is not the way to do. Maybe they should get on there and try to point people in the right direction instead but you have to do it in a way that is helpful and not degrading.

I also know that show birds are going to be more pricey. I'm just hoping that some people out there realize that all my son wants to do is compete at a small country fair once a year. Unfortunately, even the judges at those expect them to have the best of the best. There is one family in our county that competes at any level besides the county fair and yes they have good birds and win the majority of the ribbons, but they are also very helpful to the other kids.
I'm just trying to learn as much as I possibly can. I didn't grow up on a farm and never had anything but cats and dogs as pets. I want to give my kids the opportunity to be the best at everything they do and this is no exception.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought everyone here was rude. That one post just hit a chord with me and set me off.

[ritterhahn]

With all possible respect, you are new to poultry. It is commendable that your son has got into the fancy, and we all here wish him well and many happy years showing his birds.

The problem faced by ‘serious’ breeders (and this does not refer only to those who show) is the growing urban chicken fad. Imagine having a sudden, massive influx of people who make no effort to learn about how, why one shows birds at shows. At first, years ago, it was thought to be the first stirrings of a revival in interest in poultry. But then it became increasingly clear that the overwhelming majority of these new people were dead set on looking at chickens as pets – not like budgies or canaries, but cats and dogs. Unfortunately the fads making cats and dogs into little furry children – feeding them poorly, dressing them up, not understanding how the DOG or CAT needs to live and thrive or how the DOG or CAT wants to give his beloved master affection – were well under way already, so the concepts that were brought to keeping chickens were just wrong.

Many of us here have tried to help these people -- please, do read the posts, you will see that many of us have tried to help; unfortunately, the great majority (no, I do not ignore the occasional exception) think that we who have some experience with birds are wrong because we do not look at them with the kind of deep, sentimental affection really proper to new born children – that we are cruel and do not understand our birds. Now, to a man that must travel two hours in traffic both ways to his work, to get up thirty precious minutes early every morning in all weather to feed and water his birds, and then after a long day to spend an hour cleaning containers, feeding, watering, mucking out, and just plain admiring his birds, these people are far, far more offensive to me, I think, than you understand. We are all of us proud of our birds, rightly defensive about insults about them or our methods – this from people who do not understand them? Are cruel to them? Who plainly have no idea what they are talking about?

The defensive attitude that you call arrogant is just that: defensive. I have seen many times ill-mannered urchins scaring birds at shows, only to see the mother yell at the bird’s owner for telling them to stop. Read that other board – not just ask the people questions – and you can see perhaps, as I have, that the majority of these questions show an appalling lack of understanding for their birds that so often result in appalling care of their animals. No, I don’t mean simply dressing chickens in costumes for ludicrous picture contests (that is mere stupidity) – I mean the way some of them feed, house, or respond to their behaviour (that post on the broody hen was revolting – the more so for the time it took her to get a marginally correct explanation). The ability of so many of these people to accept the help they beg for is more limited than their husbandry. They can see something is wrong, but have a positively PERVERSE contempt for any answer apart from the one they EXPECT to hear. You see, they do not ask questions, they want commiseration, sympathy – eventually condolence when the poor fowl after languishing in their inept hands has died. Then we have the in memoriam pages…

It is enough to drive one howling, barking, bloody mad. Yes, we are defensive: but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. See how often the chicken huggers charge outrageous prices for eggs or fowl. I know many, many of ‘arrogant’ fanciers that give free birds (and not culls, either) to kids starting out in the fancy. Sadly, this is becoming rarer, and these free birds are increasingly ending up dead or forgotten by irresponsible children.

I wish you son the very best with his poultry endeavors. I firmly believe it is a noble, rewarding, rich experience for a boy – it’s how I started out. I hope he can find a good 4-H programme to join (hard work, but that is usually the best teacher). I wish for him the highest satisfaction a keeper can earn: witnessing his own bird that he has bred blooming and flourishing with good health, in excellent condition. Might win, might loose, but that bird is his pride and the fruit of his own hard work and dedication: he’ll be a part of the tradition we all here want to keep and pass on.

Perhaps, when after a few years practicing good husbandry you will find that the bleeding hearts (which are selfish – care much more about THEIR feelings, what feelings their birds can give THEM – rather than what is good for their BIRDS) are not so friendly after all.

In this way, arrogance is a point of perspective. We see it as defending ourselves.

Best wishes for your boy’s adventure in poultry,

Richard

[Evy]

Beautifully put, Richard. Thanks from all of us.

[goosedragon]

I agree with you that some do have a right to be proud but there is a difference in being proud and being downright arrogant about it. Making fun of people is not the way to do. Maybe they should get on there and try to point people in the right direction instead but you have to do it in a way that is helpful and not degrading. Oh yes I agree thats why I answered before and pointed out that some of the people here are helpful folks and some are...not. If it helps any the arrogant ones tend to treat everybody that way. I have been on here for years and still get talked down to. I don't Show so I can't Know. You can learn from the ABs as well as the folks, it is just painful to read sometimes
I also know that show birds are going to be more pricey. I'm just hoping that some people out there realize that all my son wants to do is compete at a small country fair once a year. Unfortunately, even the judges at those expect them to have the best of the best. There is one family in our county that competes at any level besides the county fair and yes they have good birds and win the majority of the ribbons, but they are also very helpful to the other kids.
I'm just trying to learn as much as I possibly can. I didn't grow up on a farm and never had anything but cats and dogs as pets. I want to give my kids the opportunity to be the best at everything they do and this is no exception. I did grow up on a farm my first post here was about how high the roosts fror geese should be. we never had geese but all our chickens and most of our Muscovy ducks did roost. I should know that geese don't roost? The rude answers convinced me that I had to learn about geese fast before my gift goslings grew up. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought everyone here was rude. That one post just hit a chord with me and set me off. Yep know the feeling well thats why I replied to your post, but you can learn a lot here and what you learn will be true. ~gd

[ritterhahn]

This is interesting:

http://cbs11tv.com/local/sunnyvale.seized.animals.2.1234197.html

Richard

[CubanLongtails]

This is interesting:

http://cbs11tv.com/local/sunnyvale.seized.animals.2.1234197.html

Richard

Good ole' SPCA for ya. Those animals really look abused. :roll: I thought molting was a natural occurance, apparently it's considered abuse! :o

[goosedragon]

Good ole' SPCA for ya. Those animals really look abused. :roll: I thought molting was a natural occurance, apparently it's considered abuse! :o We had a SPCA scam here on riding horses. The local farrier (Horse shoeing blacksmith) would swear that the hooves were in bad shape when he was called in to help fix the problems, go to a judge and have the SPCA seize the animals and some cases all the animals owned or boarded on the property. Most of the people managed to get them back by getting independent opinions that what the farrier was was called in to do was normal hoof maintenance and the fact that he had been called in was proof on the face of it that they weren't being neglected. The farrier finally left town, but the owners are trying to track him down so they can put the word out on him.

[ronnie413]

I read Raising Chickens for Dummies and I think it's okay. The guy that runs the site over there is co-author. I do agree with most above about the quality of posts over there. From what I understand, they don't let you link to other sites that they consider "competition" which I think is pretty unusual...

[Tom Foolery]

I read Raising Chickens for Dummies and I think it's okay. The guy that runs the site over there is co-author.

The guy that runs the site over there, the co-author, is really nothing but a computer geek. His experience with chickens is what...he has like 5-ish hens in his backyard?

;)

Here's a little gem from "over there" that's both sad and hilarious...



i have 2 bedroom muscovies. one drake and one duck. they are the loves of my life!! they have cute little personalities and i love when they fly around my room. they each pull little pranks that would make a normal person get mad, but i just laugh. they are little sweethearts. my drake has been kinda [mean] since it's the start of mating season, but he's not always bad. i am trying what i can to "fix" his behavior. i know he's a duck but it's worth a try. anyway.. they are fun and i love them

lmaonade

[Altair]

I've never browsed BYC and after reading the single blurb in this thread about "bedroom" ducks I may never want to. I am grateful for this forum. I joined in 2005 when I got my very first chickens, first under the screen name Bresis and now Altair. I'll agree I see the displays of "holier than thou" syndrome and I usually resent it until I realize many of these members have been at the game for decades. Once you get to that point it's pretty easy to be blunt when a question like "what are spurs" is "duh" for a poultry veteran. Though it might be a bounty of knowledge I know this type of attitude turns people off. I can see that. But I'd like to think I have a thick enough skin to see through the satire for the info beneath. So I stick around and sometimes actually laugh at the wit we accumulate here. I think the gap between the Wise Ones and the Newbies is so great sometimes they're like foreign organisms to one another. The Newbies ensure the hobby we love continues and the Wise Ones make sure the birds live long enough for it to continue.

Danielle

[KKluckers]

I agree with you that some do have a right to be proud but there is a difference in being proud and being downright arrogant about it. Making fun of people is not the way to do. Maybe they should get on there and try to point people in the right direction instead but you have to do it in a way that is helpful and not degrading.

I did try to go over and help people. Alot of breeders and exhibitiors in the fancy are not arrogant, and do help people with there birds. Maybe they are upset at how BYC gives mis-information. Some information is good but most is not.
I was banned off that site and not afraid to admit it. I stood up for what I thought was right. When there own moderators are self proclaimed experts and decided to repeatedly bash my birds and my name. I figured enough was enough and I stood up for myself. Everything is not rainbows and cartwheels like most of the BYC members think.
If you look through the membership many people have left due to the drama. I know I am much happier since I left.

[goosedragon]

I did try to go over and help people. Alot of breeders and exhibitiors in the fancy are not arrogant, and do help people with there birds. Maybe they are upset at how BYC gives mis-information. Some information is good but most is not.
I was banned off that site and not afraid to admit it. I stood up for what I thought was right. When there own moderators are self proclaimed experts and decided to repeatedly bash my birds and my name. I figured enough was enough and I stood up for myself. Everything is not rainbows and cartwheels like most of the BYC members think.
If you look through the membership many people have left due to the drama. I know I am much happier since I left.I still spend a lot of time over there, usually there isn't enough here to keep me busy. Of course I have been a backyarder all the time. I don't show but that doesn't stop me from being arrogant. Most of the time I don't even try to argue, just state what I think I know and point out where someone is harming their birds. Most can pick out good advice when they see it and the ones that can't aren't worth the effort. Pick out the ones that actually ask a question in their title and doesn't already have many answers. I think I have had some impact on the goose board and on the Duck board. I don't know or care much about chickens so stay away. when I get bored I have other interests.

[jungle]

I have tried to educate people over there as well and had the same results of many others- warnings and threats of being banned. I was being neither arrogant nor rude but simply giving factual information without all of the fluff. I never once made personal comments and always stayed professional yet I had all of my posts deleted from a thread on several occasions. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that the "moderators" over there are simply biased and more interested in keeping people smiling than educating them.

My biggest pet peeve is in the "Incubation" forum as I am particularly interested in embryology and have tried numerous times to help people. I have even had some of the information I provided added to a sticky about interfering with hatching yet it still makes no difference. Every day there are new threads about how best to drag that poor, premature chick out of the egg before it is ready just because the owner is too impatient to let the thing do what nature programmed it to do. I can't even read it anymore as I get so furious hearing about all those "little fluffy-butts suffocating inside their eggs with some of them all twisted up so bad that their legs are wrapped up around their heads!"

[ultasol]

Sometimes quoting literature helps them to believe you. With the anonymous nature of the internet you are just another person replying who may or may not know what they are talking about. When responses that are not nec. backed up by fact outnumber your response, someone would think that the majority would know best and follow the other advice. By saying "as read in" or by quoting a book you gain credence.

Oi. BYC has a place. Regardless of how we feel, there are those that would make a pet of a chicken regardless.

[danhonour]

I think some good advice would be to purchase a Standard of Perfection. If you can not afford a new one there are many used ones to be found at used book dealers.It is full of good information,explains defects and disqualifcations (which are seroius breeding defects).It will answer so many questions and explains terms. Management is mostly common sence/good husbandry and can be learned gradually.

[ritterhahn]

I think some good advice would be to purchase a Standard of Perfection. If you can not afford a new one there are many used ones to be found at used book dealers.It is full of good information,explains defects and disqualifcations (which are seroius breeding defects).It will answer so many questions and explains terms. Management is mostly common sence/good husbandry and can be learned gradually.

Beautifully said! It’s the pet set that turn aside at just this fork in the road. They want pets; they’ll not find the charming anecdotes about chicken behaviour, or means to make them more integrated into their new parent’s life in the SOP.

They should read Aldrovandi on the chicken-- he could wax poetic about birds, but knew them well, too.

[funkyfeathers]

I think you all are taking life way too seriously. Thus you can all count on dying young of a heart attack. I am a lot more laid back, I don't worry myself about how other people take care of their birds, as long as they are not purposely hurting them. I alone cannot police the world, nor will I waste my time trying. I have my own methods of taking care of my animals, and that's good enough for me. I will not waste my life trying to please everyone else. I prefer to spend my time loving, laughing, enjoying, admiring & smiling. The rest of you are free to do as you please. It is a free Country last I checked. If I want to fart in my own face, I have every right to. So by all means, do what you do and let others do as they do. Live and let live. Anyone who doesn't like it can "Mangez ma neige jaune" (that's French).

Oh, and p.s.- if my birds are not the best of the best top show birds that does not make me a lowlife or a bad person. Which is the impression you may well be giving people who are new to the fancy. JMO.

[MissDorking]

Well, not to defend the BYC habit of chicken diapers and stuff, but I kind of find it irksome how much time is apparrently spent on here just dissing them. This is our own forum, not just here to rant about how stupid others are. If they are really so bad, and they won't listen to you, just ignore them! Be the proffessional ones!
I'm new to this forum so I don't know any history, but when I first started looking on here I was kinda bombarded a little bit with the animosity towards the other forum. Talk about them all you want, but this is my opinion. You might not agree, but oh well, I did not have this opinion because you liked it.

Another thing, also because I am new to this forum, I do not want to become enemies with anybody on here. I'm just engaging in the debate. I spent a lot of time on BYC, but please don't label me as "ohh, it's that person from the stupid forum!" I don't think that forum is really stupid. They get a little mushy though. I do not know about the mis-information because I do not spend much time on the "illness" threads. So I just want to be friends with everybody and not get off to a bad start. :)

[ritterhahn]

You and the previous poster won’t make any enemies, just be ignored posting on this particular topic. I say this to explain you will not get a response to your statement. If you think the invective against the ‘mushy’ is a bore, the ‘let’s all be friends’ is equally one.

The Fancy is changing; new people are coming in, many are townies with little experience of animals apart from pets. There is bound to be animosity between this new group and the traditional fancier.

[MissDorking]

You and the previous poster won’t make any enemies, just be ignored posting on this particular topic. I say this to explain you will not get a response to your statement. If you think the invective against the ‘mushy’ is a bore, the ‘let’s all be friends’ is equally one.

The Fancy is changing; new people are coming in, many are townies with little experience of animals apart from pets. There is bound to be animosity between this new group and the traditional fancier.

Edited to remove what I typed. I'm not sure that I understood what you meant well enough to make a reply. ;)

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