Fair season

[Patrick]

Fair season has begun. Most of us know what that means, both good and bad. Talking all day to people who know little or nothing about poultry can be both rewarding and frustrating. The top 10 questions that we might hear, oh, once or twice a day:

10 Where are the bathrooms?

9 Where are the bunnies?

8 What are those birds with the poofy hairdoos? Ma'am those are chickens, and the breed is called Polish (or Crevecoeur, Houdan, etc). The crest is actually all feathers, not hair. "Kids come and look at these funny birds with the poofy hairdoos!"

7 Where are the REAL animals?

6 Is this a rooster or a chicken? Sir, a rooster is a male chicken. Blank stare.

5 Do all of these chickens lay eggs? Only the females. Blank stare, pause, then: "Oh", then, pause, then, hysterical laughter.

4 Do you actually eat the eggs from these chickens?

3 Do they live in these tiny cages all the time? Despite your answer, you get the feeling that the woman didn't believe you, that she thinks you were lying to her to disguise the fact that you do in reality keep these birds in these cramped cages all the time.

2 Are all geese mean? No, change that. It's usually not a question. It's statement of fact that the guy who hasn't seen a live goose in 20 years likes to inform you about, as well as everyone else within hearing distance.

And the number one question at the poultry building at the fair:

"What's a cockerel?"

One of these years I'm going to have a Tshirt made up with the answer to that one in large print, on both sides.

[annefoley]

It may help if you think of the experience as poultry missionary work!

[richbar]

The Reverend Patrick. That's a hoot!

[Patrick]

The Reverend Patrick. That's a hoot!

Now what exactly do you mean by that?!! I could be a Reverend.
Bless you, my son.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

The Reverend Patrick. That's a hoot!

Say Halleluiah!

[richbar]

Thank you padre. I need all the blessings I can get.

[Pathfinders]

Ah yes, Fair season, with the accompanying silly questions:

1) That's a chicken? Are you sure it's not a dog? (Pointing to a Silkie)
2) Where do the eggs come from? (With the inevitable grimace when you describe the various functions a vent performs.)
3) Do you need a rooster to get eggs? (Um, no.)
4) Will he bite? (Chickens do not have teeth, but they might peck you, so PLEASE keep your two year-old's hands out of the cages.)
5) Are those eggs green on the inside too? (Rolling eyes)

Those are just a few...

[Patrick]

Many of the questions are understandable, from their point of view, like the cockerel question, but when you hear it 117 times a day, especially when they just walked past the nice poultry terminolgy poster that someone made up, it gets to be tiring. I suppose it's the life we've chosen.

[Evy]

I love the Oos & Ahs from the ''downstaters" attending the NY State Fair when they gaze in wonder at the pink, blue, green, & purple dyed Silkies & the plastic eggs that a club member makes a display of. It's amazing how many really believe they hatched that way !

[Patrick]

I was wondering when the Mother Superior was going to arrive.

[Evy]

I was wondering when the Mother Superior was going to arrive.


No way ! I'm more likely to be the one on the dunking stool ! This thread's going to end up in Chat !

[KandBinMN]

You forgot to mention all the people who stick their fingers in at the poor birds, make noises at them, and tease them. I have absolutely no tolerance for them. That's why my daughter took a research project to the county fair on Silkies instead of showing them as a 4-H project. It will be alot easier taking her for the two hour drive to the state fair for judging on that, than having a 12 yr. old stay at the state fair for 3 days- no way to that one too.
Besides, this way she had to actually learn alot about them before showing them at the local poultry club shows.
I have to say though, in defense of the people and their "dumb" questions: if you put any one of us in a situation we know nothing about we'd probably ask some "dumb" questions too that would bring hoots from the experts in that field.
How about asking these "city folk" if the chicken or the egg came first and you might have even more fun. Personally, I say egg - how about you guys? Ha ha.

[Patrick]

A real expert knows the difference between a dumb question and an inexperienced one. The woman who asks about the crest on a Polish, receives an intelligent answer, yet continues to refer to it as a poofy hairdoo is an idiot. The kid who asks if a leghorn is a real breed, because his only previous exposure to one is from the cartoon character, is not.
I don't need to waste my time trying to encourage stupid questions or comments. There will be plenty without it, and I don't need to play those games.

[Sam Brush]

Patrick, just remember that the breed is Leghorn, and the variety in your specific case would be "Foghorn." On the duck side it is similar to Cayuga Ducks, where there may be no varietal "Black" precursor - only the breed: Daffy Duck.

Those two questions plus "Where are the restrooms?" are the main ones we deal with at our fair....

I think most of the really goofy questions end up being asked down at the hog barn...

Sam

[KandBinMN]

To each his own. I'll just steer clear from showing at the local fair and avoid it all in the first place. I won't subject my birds to living in a cage for four days straight with people poking fingers and teasing. It's usually so blasted hot in those barns too. Whole different situation than a strictly poultry show competition where the animals are treated much better. I showed at county fair once way back in high school as a 4-H'er, and that was enough. A couple years ago a trio of Runners was so stressed at fair that the teen showing them threw a blanket over their cage so they wouldn't see everything stressing them in the first place. To heck with the ribbon, they should have been taken home. Some are so determined to win a state fair trip though, they don't care.

[Evy]

To each his own. I'll just steer clear from showing at the local fair and avoid it all in the first place. I won't subject my birds to living in a cage for four days straight with people poking fingers and teasing. It's usually so blasted hot in those barns too. Whole different situation than a strictly poultry show competition where the animals are treated much better. I showed at county fair once way back in high school as a 4-H'er, and that was enough. A couple years ago a trio of Runners was so stressed at fair that the teen showing them threw a blanket over their cage so they wouldn't see everything stressing them in the first place. To heck with the ribbon, they should have been taken home. Some are so determined to win a state fair trip though, they don't care.

You'd really hate the New York State Fair ! Every other animal...livestock, rabbits, etc. are cycled for only 2-3 days. Poultry is kept for the whole 14 days !!! By the 2nd day ( after judging ) there are never enough shavings or people to clean them & it reeks! I've seen people step just inside the doors, wrinkle their noses & leave, probably vowing to never let the kids own a chicken ! Add that to the aforementioned abuses by ignorant fairgoers & you know why I'd never subject my birds to entering them. No premium or points are worth it. The pity of it is that most good breeders feel the same & birds that are entered are usually very inferior specimens. Those visitors that do stroll through don't get to see how beautiful many breeds can be.

[Patrick]

Patrick, just remember that the breed is Leghorn, and the variety in your specific case would be "Foghorn." On the duck side it is similar to Cayuga Ducks, where there may be no varietal "Black" precursor - only the breed: Daffy Duck.

Those two questions plus "Where are the restrooms?" are the main ones we deal with at our fair....

I think most of the really goofy questions end up being asked down at the hog barn...

Sam

I'll just start telling people that the cartoon was named after this variety. Now is it a SC Foghorn or RC? I'll have to put them in the correct class too, but it will be different between APA and ABA. One could be Warner Bros., the other Looney Tunes. At least now we'll have an available class when the Showgirls get recognized, and those other little S word birds. Now that you mention it, I've always thought it about time that the APA start adding varietal names to the single variety breeds, just so it will be easier when I introduce my white Cayugas, gray Pekins, calico Rouens.......
Don't forget about my Naked Neck Runner program. It's coming along nicely. I'm still trying to decide on a name, but am leaning towards Pecker Heads. I'll put people in touch with you to sort out what class they'll go in, because I haven't decided if I'm going to continue to develop them as miniature bantie or giant dewlap size yet. Depends which size fits better in a diaper.
You're welcome.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Patrick, just remember that the breed is Leghorn, and the variety in your specific case would be "Foghorn." On the duck side it is similar to Cayuga Ducks, where there may be no varietal "Black" precursor - only the breed: Daffy Duck.

Those two questions plus "Where are the restrooms?" are the main ones we deal with at our fair....

I think most of the really goofy questions end up being asked down at the hog barn...

Sam


Ah say, Ah say BOY!

When I am judging the market birds that are headed for the auction the most common question I get, and it is from the parents, is-

"Why dosen't my kid get the money?"

[Patrick]

To each his own. I'll just steer clear from showing at the local fair and avoid it all in the first place. I won't subject my birds to living in a cage for four days straight with people poking fingers and teasing. It's usually so blasted hot in those barns too. Whole different situation than a strictly poultry show competition where the animals are treated much better. I showed at county fair once way back in high school as a 4-H'er, and that was enough. A couple years ago a trio of Runners was so stressed at fair that the teen showing them threw a blanket over their cage so they wouldn't see everything stressing them in the first place. To heck with the ribbon, they should have been taken home. Some are so determined to win a state fair trip though, they don't care.


Not all fairs are created equally, and in your part of the country you are lucky to have some great state fairs which have serious competition. Even some county fairs are not too bad. The only one I'll do is 4 days too, which isn't all that bad, but the 10 and 14 dayers are too much for any birds. I don't worry too much about the poking fingers, unless they start opening doors or learning to use tools by immitating the chimps. The birds usually learn to stay well back in the cages. Most breeders either bring only their culls to a fair, or else they're big enough to have several show strings, and one can be sacrificed for the duration of a fair. I prefer to bring culls, except for a few prime specimens of breeds or varieties which won't be on display otherwise, like turkeys, but I am also usually there to watch over things and introduce someone who gets out of line to my charming personality.

Another communication I love from fairgoers, not so much a question, is the guy who points at a turkey and with a stupid look on his face exclaims: "Dinner!", or some similar food related comment. Then there's the opposite animal, the woman who is horrified to learn, after she asks, that you really do eat the culls that don't turn out well as show birds. Any rationalization to her about turkeys being an efficient show animal to breed because the culls have an equally noble purpose is lost. All she hears is that you kill poor Tom.

[Evy]

QUOTE: I've always thought it about time that the APA start adding varietal names to the single variety breeds, just so it will be easier when I introduce my white Cayugas, gray Pekins, calico Rouens.......

The Call Breeders need you, as well. They're so busy cranking out new ''pretty colors'' that they don't have time to worry about type anymore.

[Patrick]

QUOTE:

The Call Breeders need you.

No they don't. They have too many ideas for new variety names as it is. Some varieties have three or more names for the SAME mutation. All those should go in the Looney Tune class as well.

[Sam Brush]

Patrick - gosh, all good questions to ponder. I do think that the Showgirls would be in the "RKO" or maybe a "Radio City Music Hall Clean Legged" class.... I keep wishing for another name to come along for them. Showgirls is just a bit too Vegas.

Evy - on the Call aficionados - I guess they can keep coming up with "new" varieties until the confectionery names run out.!! Chocolate, caramel, vanilla cinnamon, marzipan,.......

Bad Sam

[goosedragon]

No they don't. They have too many ideas for new variety names as it is. Some varieties have three or more names for the SAME mutation. All those should go in the Looney Tune class as well. Well I am going to trot out the same tired proposal as I have for years. Those 'pretty colored' bantams ducks that don't have call type, that still look like natural ducks in other words, should be pushing for a seperate breed with about 20 varieties. I suspect it would be about 20 years before they would become deformed enough to compete in type with calls. I also predict that without all the effort to pass as calls the new breed would quickly replace the calls as to the number of ducks entered in the bantam class and start winning as best bantam waterfowl or even best Waterfowl.~gd

[gregrag]

I believe we must all think of ourselves as ambassadors to all of those unfamiliar with the world of Poultry . You can pretty much tell how many generations away from the farm that one is by the question they ask. Many city slickers have only seen a picture of a chicken on the side of an egg-carton. I believe its important for us to still be respectful of these people that have no chicken knowledge and answer their questions as factually and politely as we can---after all the shows not only show the best of the breeds but it is also a social gathering---seeing people we have'nt seen since the last show--etc...etc...lets keep it positive and welcoming to visitors...they can't help the fact of having no exposure--be gentle with them....Greg:lol:

[Evy]

Well I am going to trot out the same tired proposal as I have for years. Those 'pretty colored' bantams ducks that don't have call type, that still look like natural ducks in other words, should be pushing for a seperate breed with about 20 varieties. I suspect it would be about 20 years before they would become deformed enough to compete in type with calls. I also predict that without all the effort to pass as calls the new breed would quickly replace the calls as to the number of ducks entered in the bantam class and start winning as best bantam waterfowl or even best Waterfowl.~gd

Ain't gonna' happen, GD. They already have Mallards in the bantam duck class, where they shouldn't be, & are messing with them as well.

[ges]

I believe we must all think of ourselves as ambassadors to all of those unfamiliar with the world of Poultry ... I believe its important for us to still be respectful of these people that have no chicken knowledge and answer their questions as factually and politely as we can---after all the shows not only show the best of the breeds but it is also a social gathering---seeing people we have'nt seen since the last show--etc...etc...lets keep it positive and welcoming to visitors...they can't help the fact of having no exposure--be gentle with them....Greg:lol:

Great point. We need to keep that in mind when those "dumb" questions start coming.

[Evy]

Great point. We need to keep that in mind when those "dumb" questions start coming.

No question is dumb if it's sincere. It's the ''cracks'' & the refusal to accept an answer that's annoying. "No, that's not hair on that chicken. It's all feathers, honestly'' . "Hey, Ethel, lookit the hairdo on this one''! Sigh.....

[southern IL stringman]

couldnt agree more with evy's statment about call duck colors and breeders but its not there fault they learned the new color scheme from the old english breeders . im sorry friends but why do we need 50 colors of old english most of which are too large bodied when we cant even get decent numbers or quality in the old " standard colors" i couldnt agree more with the statments made by the fair goers i just ran my string though 6 fairs in Il since july 12 and got one more to go in Cape Gerardeau Mo. in few weeks this year seemed to be just like the last 3 years as entrys here have been on down hill trend on the local county level my string accounts for 75 to 90% of the total birds shown this year and 25% of the entrys at IL state fair. just wonder how the numbers are in other places ?

[goosedragon]

Evy wrote (somewhere on this thread): "Ain't gonna' happen, GD. They already have Mallards in the bantam duck class, where they shouldn't be, & are messing with them as well."
I could not understand why Mallards shouldn't be bantams and gave it some thought (unusual for me). Is it because they are not a smaller version of a larger duck?
A gray call is a bantam Mallard even though the type is completely distorted and they aren't that much smaller than a Mallard? What are Calls a bantam of? Aren't there bantam chickens called "true bantams" without a large fowl equivalent?
What is the feeling on Black East Indies vs. Cayugas? Should the BEI be drummed out of the bantam class as well leaving just the Calls?
Trolling for the HH, should Holderreads new mini-geese be considered as bantams, mini- or ultra light geese? (yes, I know that ain't going to happen either.) {reminds me of Randy Henry's search for the true Mimi or Midget White turkey}
I still think "all the pretty colors/patterns" have a better claim on the bantam class than the Calls do, what am I missing?~gd

[Evy]

Evy wrote (somewhere on this thread): "Ain't gonna' happen, GD. They already have Mallards in the bantam duck class, where they shouldn't be, & are messing with them as well."
I could not understand why Mallards shouldn't be bantams and gave it some thought (unusual for me). Is it because they are not a smaller version of a larger duck?
A gray call is a bantam Mallard even though the type is completely distorted and they aren't that much smaller than a Mallard? What are Calls a bantam of? Aren't there bantam chickens called "true bantams" without a large fowl equivalent?
What is the feeling on Black East Indies vs. Cayugas? Should the BEI be drummed out of the bantam class as well leaving just the Calls?
Trolling for the HH, should Holderreads new mini-geese be considered as bantams, mini- or ultra light geese? (yes, I know that ain't going to happen either.) {reminds me of Randy Henry's search for the true Mimi or Midget White turkey}
I still think "all the pretty colors/patterns" have a better claim on the bantam class than the Calls do, what am I missing?~gd

GD, you really need to get to a big show in order to argue this. A Mallard is nearly twice the size of a SQ Call...40 oz. vs 26 oz. for the biggest (old drakes ). Some ducks in the light class, ie: Runners , only weigh about 8 oz. more.
Yes, Calls were bred down from Mallards, but, IMO, all the more reason for Mallards to be in the light class, along with the fact that the Call conformation ( that you dislike so ) is totally different.
BEIs are about the same weight / size as a Call & again, the body type is way different than a Cayuga. It's not a ''bantam'' Cayuga.
I may be mistaken here, but I believe SOP / Bantam Standard requirements are based on weights-size rather than on the existance of a larger version of the same bird.

[Patrick]

couldnt agree more with evy's statment about call duck colors and breeders but its not there fault they learned the new color scheme from the old english breeders . im sorry friends but why do we need 50 colors of old english most of which are too large bodied when we cant even get decent numbers or quality in the old " standard colors"

At least the OEGB breeders have the SENSE to keep the name of the new varieties the same as they are in other breeds. There may be exceptions, I'm far from familiar with even all of the recognized OEGB varieties, but when I go down the aisle and see a mille colored OEGB, it's nice to know that it's actually called millie, and that all I need do is refer to the color description for mille in the standard. Same for spangled, buff, etc. It's comforting to me to know that at least there are still a few people out there (the OEGB breeders) who understand what it means to simply put an exisiting variety on another breed, without having to make up a new name for it, just because it has never been known in the breed before. It's not rocket science, but the crazy colored Call kooks seem to not get that. IMO, they belong over with the BYC idiots, naming colors because they have a happy sounding name, like sweets or comfort food, and for no other rational reason.

I get your concern for the creation of new varieties when those that we currently have are not being worked with, but, IMO, if they were going to choose a breed to put more varieties on, they couldn't have done much better than an OEGB. No peculiar feather structures to worry about, no major difficulties in breeding, no extraordinary housing, feeding or maintenance requirements, plenty of other relatively similar breeds to use for outcrosses, they're small, the breed is very popular, the list goes on and on. If I had one wish, now that they are developing all of these varieties, it would be that they do not develop any which require double mating to achieve good examples of both sexes. I understand, depending on which variety they choose, that may not even be possible, if it's not already possible in the breeds which are currently found in that variety.

One way I look at it is, some of these varieties will be dying out, if they only occur in breeds which are not popular, so by putting them on an OEGB, at least they're working to save the variety. A breed, IMO, can usually be recreated, but once we've lost a variety, in some cases it may be lost until it pops up again as a mutation. Another thing that just occured to me is that these new varieties on an OEGB help me to understand the variety better. I might never see it on a Booted Bantam or a Cornish, but will probably on an OE. It would be nice to figure out a variety on a hard feathered breed first, before worrying about how it's supposed to look with a lot of fluff.

[goosedragon]

Your insistence that I can't understand APA without going to a Show reminds me of my old neighbor, a Southern Baptist minister, that insists I can only understand his church by going to a Revival (I was brought up Northern Baptist)

[Evy]

Your insistence that I can't understand APA without going to a Show reminds me of my old neighbor, a Southern Baptist minister, that insists I can only understand his church by going to a Revival (I was brought up Northern Baptist)

I'm saying you need to see the real thing rather than a cartoon drawing in a book.