Dumor Feeds

[7961]

FYI: Bummed...I heard this morning from my source(s) that TSC will no longer be carrying the Dumor line of poultry feeds by the end of the yr. I am unaware of the fate of the other Dumor livestock feeds. Alternatively I was told they will carry Purina feeds...what formulas I don't know...Dumor is milled by Purina for TSC.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

I do not think that the Dumor product line as it is currently formulated would ever make it as a feed for exhibition poultry.
I'm not very entusiastic about the Purina line of CHICKEN feed for show chickens either. Save for the Broiler Show Chow.
But Purina has a rep to live up to, Dumor does not! It has to be an improvement.
Purina has bowed (some) to the demands of the great uneducated masses. In an effort to capture some of the whacko portion of "natural, organic, no animal bypoduct, etc." market.
Purina Gamebird feeds are very useful.

[robin416]

I do not think that the Dumor product line as it is currently formulated would ever make it as a feed for exhibition poultry.
I'm not very entusiastic about the Purina line of CHICKEN feed for show chickens either. Save for the Broiler Show Chow.
But Purina has a rep to live up to, Dumor does not! It has to be an improvement.
Purina has bowed (some) to the demands of the great uneducated masses. In an effort to capture some of the whacko portion of "natural, organic, no animal bypoduct, etc." market.
Purina Gamebird feeds are very useful.

Neil, Dumor still has animal protein in it. But that said, I wouldn't be sad to see it come off the shelves. I have been less than happy with the quality being inconsistent. But my options for feed for my birds is very limited here if I want to continue feeding animal protein. Nutrena at 26% protein is my only other option at this point.

[Patrick]

Neil, Dumor still has animal protein in it. But that said, I wouldn't be sad to see it come off the shelves. I have been less than happy with the quality being inconsistent. But my options for feed for my birds is very limited here if I want to continue feeding animal protein. Nutrena at 26% protein is my only other option at this point.

If Dumor is made by Purina for TSC, then quality control should be the same. TSC has been a supporter of some poultry shows, and for that I am appreciative. In a recent spell of hot very humid weather here, I had the opportunity to visit three grain stores in 2 days. Only my local TSC had a huge fan blowing over the grain aisles, to increase circulation and help prevent mold. Purina isn't the only grain company who has been caving in to the fears of adding meat protein to their formulas. The good thing is that if TSC now is carrying Purina, they also have access to Mazuri, if you want to pay the price, though I'd guess that control over exactly which products they carry may be by the corporate office. I understand TSC's business model, in going after the hobby, backyard farmer, but IMO, they made a huge mistake by designing their stores without loading docks. Granted, most of their customers are the type who shrink at the thought having to buy a WHOLE 50# bag. If they had a formula that was useful to me, I'd buy from them, especially now with Purina, but when I buy, it's 20 or 30 bags at a time. Even if they're going to have some poor SOB haul it all through the store for me and load it up into my truck, I'm not going to wait that long to buy grain every week, when I can back up to the docks at the other 2 stores I buy from.

FWIW, I've found TSC stores to be mainly a function of their manager. One I've dealt with closely has been very active in promoting poultry education, and other livestock as well. He's as well versed in many areas of small agriculture as most of the rest of us. Another is not much brighter than the BYC people she cavorts with, and she spreads a lot of the same misinformation, just thinking that the mere mention of "peeps" and "roos" is so cute.

[robin416]

Neil, I might owe you an apology about the animal protein. Just because you said something I decided to look at the little bag of Dumor I bought for some new chicks. No where does it say there is animal protein on the lable.

Patrick, I think it depends on the mill your feed is coming from. Mine comes out of Nashville. Twice in the last six months I've had problem with fines. I've talked to Purina, they admit its their fault but so far it appears they aren't doing a good job of policing the problem. A year ago they had a bug problem. Bagging feed with active bug infestations. I have enough on my plate without having to load feed back in to my truck to take back then unload it all once again when I get home.

I have yet to run in to that with Nutrena. But like I mentioned before, I'd rather not feed the high protein.

[MattL]

Find a dealer for Kent MultiFlock and you will forget about Dumor and Purina.
MattL

[jungle]

Neil, I might owe you an apology about the animal protein. Just because you said something I decided to look at the little bag of Dumor I bought for some new chicks. No where does it say there is animal protein on the lable.


I was just abut to question you on that. Last spring I became excited when I thought my local feed store was carrying a feed with animal protein in it after reading their label online. I raced down to the feed store, went into the building, read the label and discovered that the formula had just been changed to soy.

[robin416]

Matt, because of the high recommendations from this board about Kent I'd be using that if it was available to me here. The closest I found was two hours away with a major city being between me and the feed store.

Jungle, just a couple of months ago I checked the lable on my Dumor and it listed animal protein. So its just been recently they've removed it. They have also guaranteed I won't be going back to it.

[Evy]

Find a dealer for Kent MultiFlock and you will forget about Dumor and Purina.
MattL

Kent is the parent company of Blue Seal in the northeast & that's no better than Purina, just cheaper. I still have to suppliment.

[Neil E. Grassbaugh]

Kent is the parent company of Blue Seal in the northeast & that's no better than Purina, just cheaper. I still have to suppliment.

We use Kent Multiflock with GREAT sucess on LF, Bantams, BEIs, pigeons and even the 4-H turkeys. And, with our location we have probably have access to more national brands than any other area of the country.

We also use Kent Start and Gro but I would say that it is no better than anything else we have available.

The Coturnix Quail laying flock (some 600 hens) get Purina Game Bird breeder. That seems to be the best for them. The young quail are grownon Purina gamebird products. Costs more but is certainly worth it in our experience.

[Evy]

We use Kent Multiflock with GREAT sucess on LF, Bantams, BEIs, pigeons and even the 4-H turkeys. And, with our location we have probably have access to more national brands than any other area of the country.

We also use Kent Start and Gro but I would say that it is no better than anything else we have available.

The Coturnix Quail laying flock (some 600 hens) get Purina Game Bird breeder. That seems to be the best for them. The young quail are grownon Purina gamebird products. Costs more but is certainly worth it in our experience.

I'd try it if I could talk the local mill into it. Under it's new mg't., I have trouble even getting breeder pellets in the spring!

[Patrick]

I think that Neil brings up a good point too. People should remember, for the most part, that most of us cannot improve on the formulas that have been developed by those who study these things professionally. This animal protein issue does seem to have merit, but few of us without animal nutrition backgrounds can really know exactly what or how much supplementation is best.

I have given in and just started giving tiny amounts of cheap cat food, to see if I notice any difference. The worst part about that, is now the grain store staff think that I actually own cats. How embarrassing.

[robin416]

I think that Neil brings up a good point too. People should remember, for the most part, that most of us cannot improve on the formulas that have been developed by those who study these things professionally. This animal protein issue does seem to have merit, but few of us without animal nutrition backgrounds can really know exactly what or how much supplementation is best.

I have given in and just started giving tiny amounts of cheap cat food, to see if I notice any difference. The worst part about that, is now the grain store staff think that I actually own cats. How embarrassing.

What I wish is that I could find a low protein feed that I could amend with a different source of protein. Wait, what am I saying? I don't want to have to amend a darned thing. I want a feed that I can depend on, that has the correct source of protein.

I did find a dry dog food that has no poultry by-products in it. I think it was Science Diet Lamb & Rice. Lamb being the first ingredient. If it wasn't SD it was Iams.

Do I detect a thing on your part regarding cats?

[MattL]

Having used Purina feeds for many years before they "improved" them, I still stand by my statement on Kent Multiflock. Much better feed and show birds finish better on it. Blue Seal is a owned by Kent but do not use the same formulas. That came from a Kent feed rep Neil and I met with a few years ago. Been using it for over 10 years, they do not waste it like ground or mash feed and feather and condition is second to none. I do not have to supplement with anything other than some TizWiz ShoGlo in the winter to add some fat to the mix. When I still had the Poms and Rouens, I added a little cheap Sam's Club dog food during breeding and moulting season one year and seen little difference from using straight multiflock. A few of them did start to bark when I hit the yard:) JK!
MattL

[threehorses]

I'm not really surprised that they're shutting it down. I've heard lots of mixed reviews. The good reviews seem to be more about economy, but I've heard an awful lot about lack of efficiency, very large smelly droppings, etc.

Purina these days seems to be a high-medium and dependable food - you always know what you're getting, even if what you are getting isn't the absolute best. Honestly I tried a Nutrena feed down here that I felt blew it out of the water. Both feeds being turned-over at the dealership as often, kept in air conditioning, etc the Nutrena food was just a cleaner food with a better effect on the birds. Unfortunately our Nutrena dealership doesn't delivery (ahhh the benefits of semi-city life)

But at least with Purina, when they say their feed is fortified completely - they mean it and give numbers to back it up. One of my 'beefs' with other feed manufacturers (including and especially mills) is that they can say "fortified" and not mean 'complete'. If they have any vitamin A, they can just slap "vitamin A" on the label and one is lead to believe that there's a reasonable amount for a scientifically average bird.

Feed manufacturers know the rules. The good ones go beyond the requirements to be more clear (like the ones that state exactly what protein forms they have), the others just have the old standard "we might have anything in this food but it's a plant protein anyway" label.

I'm having troubles down here as one of the prettier feeds we've had down here (Bluebonnet) isn't available and I wanted to try it again. You can get Purina nearly everywhere, but not everywhere has good storage or turn over. So our options are getting limited.

[Pathfinders]

Find a dealer for Kent MultiFlock and you will forget about Dumor and Purina.
MattL

My local TSC was the only place that would carry Kent, (which I hounded them into getting based on your recommendation Matt), and since the mandate came down from Corporate, they have to switch to Purina.

At least the store manager knew enough to call me well in advance so I could buy a big whack of the Kent to make the transition.

And I had forgotten about the Mazuri, I'll have to see if they can carry it. As it is now, I figured I'd be mixing the Gamebird feed with the "Vegetarian" crap so I could have something to feed my birds. TSC is the only feed store within 25 miles of my house.

((sigh))

[Pathfinders]

I think that Neil brings up a good point too. People should remember, for the most part, that most of us cannot improve on the formulas that have been developed by those who study these things professionally. This animal protein issue does seem to have merit, but few of us without animal nutrition backgrounds can really know exactly what or how much supplementation is best.

I have given in and just started giving tiny amounts of cheap cat food, to see if I notice any difference. The worst part about that, is now the grain store staff think that I actually own cats. How embarrassing.


ROFLMAO at you Patrick.

And yes, I do use the dry cat food too, and have seen a difference. I know, it makes some people wince at the idea, but chickens were cannibals long before humans thought to feed cat food to them. I had a very long chat with the feed expert at Southern States about the pros and cons of vegetable versus synthetic lysine and methionine, and I am still convinced that my birds do better with such sourced directly from animals, rather than synthesized. But that's just me.

[robin416]

Laura, I don't think its just you. I notice an improvement in over all appearance in my birds with the animal protein. I guess what its going to take is all of us getting together and protesting these plants that have removed the type of protein we feel the birds need.

[VGP]

I have to say that I have used Dumor feeds for about the last five years, ever since TSC opened in Zanesville, and have had great results at the shows and in the egg basket. I also convinced our TSC manager to bring in some Kent feed and I honestly could not tell the difference. After about 6 months our TSC stopped carrying the Kent and when I queried the manager he said that customers were complaining that the bags did not weigh the full fifty pounds.

I purchased three bags of Dumor just this week and the tags on both the 20% chick starter and the 16% egg pellets listed "Animal protien" as the third ingredient. I will be sorry to see Dumor go at TSC because my alternatives are extremely limited.

One thing I should mention is that my birds free range all day and, if someone leaves the garage door open, often steel the barn cats kibble and that might make a difference.

Carl
Valley Green Poultry

[7961]

A friend @ the local TSC yesterday told me that TSC is dropping the Kent line and will carry the Purina Start & Grow, Layena Crumbles and Pellets and Flock Raiser in its place. The change over is supposed to happen on October 5. As far as what he has been told, the corporate people are keeping things quiet, Dumor feeds stay.

[Pathfinders]

Laura, I don't think its just you. I notice an improvement in over all appearance in my birds with the animal protein. I guess what its going to take is all of us getting together and protesting these plants that have removed the type of protein we feel the birds need.

The feed companies don't give a hoot what folks like us think, say, or do. Their biggest customers are the egg and meat producers, exhibition folks and even backyarders are just a blip in their sales (this was pretty much word for word what the Southern States guy said to me.)

We can complain, but they aren't going to listen, IMO.

[Patrick]

Laura, I don't think its just you. I notice an improvement in over all appearance in my birds with the animal protein. I guess what its going to take is all of us getting together and protesting these plants that have removed the type of protein we feel the birds need.

You have to understand that there are a lot of regulations which govern the manufacturing of feed. It's not surprising that the rules are complicated, once the government gets involved. Neil probably knows more about the details than I do, but the removal of animal protein is in part because of the mad cow scare. If it's exactly prohibited I don't know for sure, but the feed industry at the least is under a lot of pressure to reduce the use of animal protein being fed to other animals, especially those which we eat ourselves.

[Patrick]

The feed companies don't give a hoot what folks like us think, say, or do. Their biggest customers are the egg and meat producers, exhibition folks and even backyarders are just a blip in their sales (this was pretty much word for word what the Southern States guy said to me.)

We can complain, but they aren't going to listen, IMO.

You laugh, but I'm dead serious. The cat loving lady at the feed store was overjoyed to discuss the benefits on cat health of that particular brand, when all I asked for was the largest and cheapest bag of cat food that they had. Even for animals which I've owned but didn't particularly care about, I've never bought the cheapest food for. I could have tried to explain to her the need for animal protein in my birds, that her company's feed was now lacking, but it would have taken too much time, and led to too much discussion about cat food which other people may have overheard, and also get the wrong impression. I thought it best to simply nod in agreement and say as little as possible, to get the heck out of there quickly. On the way home I considered sending all my birds to the auction rather than have to go through anyone mistaking me for a cat owner again. I didn't, but I kicked a few unfavorite birds, just for what I had to go through on their behalf. Now Evy's going to chastize me for another cat hating post. I don't hate them, just NIMBY, not in my barnyard.

Maybe in the big ag producing areas, feed companies turn a deaf ear to our concerns, but here in New England, there is almost no commercial ag. Backyard, hobby and small farmers ARE their bread and butter here, and I think that they know it. They are still governed by other, stronger forces, which may take priority over our wishes.

[Evy]

Now Evy's going to chastize me for another cat hating post. I don't hate them, just NIMBY, not in my barnyard.

I wouldn't expect less of someone that keeps snakes as pets! No redeeming qualities in my world. They aren't allowed in my yard.

I'm also a cat food supplementer.

[goosedragon]

You have to understand that there are a lot of regulations which govern the manufacturing of feed. It's not surprising that the rules are complicated, once the government gets involved. Neil probably knows more about the details than I do, but the removal of animal protein is in part because of the mad cow scare. If it's exactly prohibited I don't know for sure, but the feed industry at the least is under a lot of pressure to reduce the use of animal protein being fed to other animals, especially those which we eat ourselves."In 1997, regulations prohibited the feeding of mammalian byproducts to ruminants such as cows and goats. However, the byproducts of ruminants can still be legally fed to pets or other livestock such as pigs and poultry such as chickens." The main source of animal protein used to be mammalian byproducts . As stated by the quote from Wikipedia such products are not prohibited for poultry, but the mills producing poultry feed usually also produce cattle feed. the Industry took an honest look at itself and realized that the only fool proof way to prevent ingredient or feed mix ups was to allow no mammalian byproducts in mills that produced cattle feed. It was easier to reformulate poultry feed than to build new mills. The marketing people realized they could spin this problem into the Natural-Green fad and turn it into a sales point.
I don't know what the commercial egg producers are feeding but the intergrated meat poultry producers are feeding mammalian byproducts since they are now cheaper than Soy due to the lack of demand for meat products. They aren't using meat products to produce Bio-fuels either!