Iowa?

[callduckguy]

any reports or word on the Iowa show??

[Evy]

This is the 1st complaint I've heard. Of course, it's often hard to win at small shows & be disappointed when the competition gets tough. Who judged the standard WF ?

[MKG]

I heard quite a few folks pulled their birds and left early - and consequently won't be invited back to this show. Some people need to cool down and realize judges sometimes make mistakes - and learn how to lose gracefully. I think all of us who have been around awhile have lost on birds that should have won, and also won when we had no business winning. It's no big deal in the long run scheme of things.

[Patrick]

I heard quite a few folks pulled their birds and left early - and consequently won't be invited back to this show. Some people need to cool down and realize judges sometimes make mistakes - and learn how to lose gracefully. I think all of us who have been around awhile have lost on birds that should have won, and also won when we had no business winning. It's no big deal in the long run scheme of things.

Exactly! Good for that club, if that's what they'll actually do, for not inviting the early leavers back.

[crazyduck]

We attended the Iowa show, and thought it was a good show. There were some issues with the water Saturday afternoon, but it seemed as though people managed. There were many excellent birds - especially the waterfowl.

While I don't always agree with the judges choices, I think they do the best they can. It shouldn't matter which bird won at the last show. Judging is subjective - the judges interpretation of the standard, and how a bird looks at the time of judging. I think overall, judges work hard to be as fair as possible.

[crazyduck]

We raise bantam cochins, bantam and large fowl Brahmas, bantam Rocks, bantam and large fowl Australorps, single comb & rose comb Nankins, 3 varieties of Old English, Pekins, Magpies, Khaki Campbells, gray & buff Toulouse, and grey, white, snowy, pastel, blue fawn, khaki, and fawn & white calls.

We have been to 12 or 13 shows in 5 states over the past few months. Our son shows all of the calls in both junior and open shows, and has done quite well. He has earned about 1000 jr. points this year, and over 700 open show points, and was awarded his certificate for Master Exhibitor by the NCBA in Iowa City. For a young kid, he has a pretty good handle on the win some, lose some attitude. He loves when his birds win shows, but is pretty well-versed in "today was not my day", too. I think it is fascinating how one bird can win a show one weekend, and turn around and get beat by the same birds the following weekend - sometimes even with the same judges.

Oops! Forgot to include guineas and turkeys. Must be selective memory - I'm not too crazy about guineas :)

[Patrick]

Gary Rossman was the large waterfowl judge. I spoke to him after the judging was done, he had no clue that our cockerel had won RES Waterfowl at Ohio and Champ Waterfowl in MI, he said there was brownish orange on his feet...that was all he could come up with, I showed him the bird with the keel,the dull no green sheen duck's and the white feathers.He asked if the Ohio judge really looked at him , I told him all 7 did...It is true , small shows are hard to win at when your from out of town...haha or your name isn't Charley,Art, Dennis in call ducks. Kershaws, Superior Farms or Twisted Feather in the larger waterfowl. We just try our best to keep our breeding pure and pedigreed which has worked very well until this show. It was all just very strange that we didn't even place very well with our Cayugas and did very well with our Buffs, which both always do well alike. I'm not disappointed at the loss,just the lack of knowledge of the standard. Besides that, the place was very small, poor lighting, no water after noon on Saturday , only from the sink in the one stall men's room, very small walk ways. It was said at the Call duck meet that the next show ''should be '' looked at to see if it can handle or have all the needs for a big show..

Wow! Let's see, the judging sucked, most of the waterfowl and all of the poultry, the facilities were poor and only the big names and the locals are given any chance at winning. Let me ask you, if all of that is true, how exactly do you think that publicly criticizing the judge and the club is going to win you any favors next time? "Lots of top breeders will not ever go to this show again." Well then, there you have it, your chances just went up next time. Plus, now they know your name, surely, so you'll be a shoe-in. I'd love to know who these top breeders are, BTW, as most that I've seen know that sometimes they run into judging with which they disagree, clubs which aren't always that organized, or are understaffed and issues with the facilities which are beyond anyone's control. They understand that next year everything will be different, and seldom pledge to stay away from any one show without seeing a pattern of years of abuses.

Now, sarcasm aside, here's some advice. Obviously you've never been involved with exhibiting anything before, but you've broken one of the cardinal unspoken rules, and that is, do not expect one judge to agree and put up a bird that a previous judge has. It shows a profound lack of understanding of the exhibition process and is considered very bad sportsmanship. As Mike said below, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Sometimes you get one when you deserved the other. It all evens out in the end. You won't be around long if you don't start to understand some of the real yet intangible benefits of being involved with exhibition animals. Understand that there is a reason why all of those big names win. It's not fixed, it's because they deserve it. They've been around for long enough that their lines in most cases usuaully match the standard and/or what the judges are looking for. In many cases even their culls are better than a lot of the backyard competition. In many varieties there really is no competition anymore, and their worst birds from show lines, which may have been laughed out of the show room 50 or even 20 years ago, can be top winners today. In some shows it's even difficult for judges to find quality examples of many of the LF and large WF classes, for example, to put up on CH Row. Someone passing by really questions the judges abilities for placing such a bird, unless he goes back through the group and actually sees the competition, or lack of, I should say. Some of those big names always win because they always do have the best birds, believe it or not. That's why they're so well known. They put in the time and effort, and it shows. Learn what the judges actually look for. Try clerking. Judging is far from as easy as you seem to think it is. Believe it or not, you have a lot to learn, and clerking is a great way. These big guys which you malign due to sour grapes are the people you really need to be learning from. Sure, some of them are incredible jerks ;), but how willing will they be to help you now? Understand what it is you have, and what you don't. Winning BB with a Buff duck of all things, even at an IWBA or APA National does NOT give you THE National Champion Buff duck. Representing your birds that way may impress the children or the relatives who don't know any better, or the BYC crowd, but serious exhibitors who know better consider it ridiculous. Finally, learn what it takes to raise a line of exhibition birds, long term. Congratulations that you got lucky and hatched a bird which several judges seem to have appreciated, but selling eggs or ducklings out of your show winning birds, or continuing to let them "free" range is a recipe for failure, guaranteed.

[Bob308]

Exactly! Good for that club, if that's what they'll actually do, for not inviting the early leavers back.

Some friends and I took a road trip to Georgia(18hrs) last month. There it is apparently acceptable to pack up your birds and leave as soon as they are judged, literally. I was watching a class of birds being judged where the pullets are usually the strongest. As soon as the judge handled the Cock And Hen and turned to the pullets, an exhibitor cooped out his Cock and Hen and left.
By the time the Champion row was filled and they were picking the Show Champions the show room was basically empty and they were starting to tear down the coops.

While it wasn't so blatant, the same thing was acceptable at the APA Nationals last year in Ventura.

Bob

[callduckguy]

So allow us to take a break from the normally scheduled programming and get back to our show..

who were the winners in the classes..?? haha

[Hummer]

So allow us to take a break from the normally scheduled programming and get back to our show..

who were the winners in the classes..?? haha

I can give you a small breakdown on the call ducks winners since I brought the NCBA show report home to work on. For the NCBA it was a very successful national as far as numbers and number of exhibitors. Thanks to a number of people who worked hard on the show the club brought in just short of $2,000 for the club treasury which is a record for any national. It was a stretch for the host club since the calls ducks brought friends with them and a number of 2300 birds is about twice the size of their normal show. The weather turned out absolutely gorgeous and we ever had our annual meeting outside in Iowa in November!!!! Again, as far as the NCBA National we got alot of compliments and it was a success. After I let and got on a plane there were some personality issues that erupted but that is stictly personal issues. I never really had much of a chance to look anything else over in the show except the calls and a few other birds.

Best Call- Gray Old Hen- Wapsipinicon Waterfowl (Iowa)
Reserve Call- White Young Hen- Charley Hodum (Mississippi)
3rd Best Call- White Old Drake- Charley Hodum (Mississippi)
4th Best Call- Pastel Young Drake- Jerrold Siemens (Manitoba)
5th Best Call- Gray Young Drake- J & J Calls (Manitoba)

Best Display- White Call- Charley Hodum (Missisippi)
Reserve Display- Butterscotch Call- Jerry Foley (Kentucky)
3rd Best Display- White Call- Cierae Endsley (Kentucky)

The Best Call went on to win Reserve Bantam (ABA)
The Reserve Bantam APA was a Black Cochin by Mark and Larry Peterson
Champion Bantam and Reserve Show Champion- White Wyandotte (K)- Twisted Feather Farms
Champion Largefowl and Show Champion- Buff Orpington (K)- Twisted Feather Farms

Hummer

[crazyduck]

I can give you a small breakdown on the call ducks winners since I brought the NCBA show report home to work on. For the NCBA it was a very successful national as far as numbers and number of exhibitors. Thanks to a number of people who worked hard on the show the club brought in just short of $2,000 for the club treasury which is a record for any national. It was a stretch for the host club since the calls ducks brought friends with them and a number of 2300 birds is about twice the size of their normal show. The weather turned out absolutely gorgeous and we ever had our annual meeting outside in Iowa in November!!!! Again, as far as the NCBA National we got alot of compliments and it was a success. After I let and got on a plane there were some personality issues that erupted but that is stictly personal issues. I never really had much of a chance to look anything else over in the show except the calls and a few other birds.

Best Call- Gray Old Hen- Wapsipinicon Waterfowl (Iowa)
Reserve Call- White Young Hen- Charley Hodum (Mississippi)
3rd Best Call- White Old Drake- Charley Hodum (Mississippi)
4th Best Call- Pastel Young Drake- Jerrold Siemens (Manitoba)
5th Best Call- Gray Young Drake- J & J Calls (Manitoba)

Best Display- White Call- Charley Hodum (Missisippi)
Reserve Display- Butterscotch Call- Jerry Foley (Kentucky)
3rd Best Display- White Call- Cierae Endsley (Kentucky)

The Best Call went on to win Reserve Bantam (ABA)
The Reserve Bantam APA was a Black Cochin by Mark and Larry Peterson
Champion Bantam and Reserve Show Champion- White Wyandotte (K)- Twisted Feather Farms
Champion Largefowl and Show Champion- Buff Orpington (K)- Twisted Feather Farms

Hummer


Thanks much for the update. It is amazing how many of the final details a person can miss at a show of this size. There were a lot beautiful birds in Iowa City!

Kudos to the NCBA for a great national. The club did a wonderful job with the show and all the details that were involved. It was amazing to see the quality and number of birds exhibited, and the distances people traveled to participate. We have been quite impressed with the willingness of NCBA members, along with many of the judges, to answer questions and give advice to those of us who are relatively "new" to the fancy in comparison. It is wonderful to see organizations where competitors are willing to help one another, and ensure the growth and continuation of the breeds we enjoy raising and exhibiting, as well as the opportunity to experience great shows, healthy competition, forge new friendships, and the camaraderie a shared passion (obsession!?) can offer. We appreciate the opportunity to learn from the masters - and hopefully talk them in to selling us a bird from time to time in the hopes of improving our line :wink:

[callduckguy]

thanks hummer, as always appreciated

[Grubb Waterfowl]

Wow! Let's see, the judging sucked, most of the waterfowl and all of the poultry, the facilities were poor and only the big names and the locals are given any chance at winning. Let me ask you, if all of that is true, how exactly do you think that publicly criticizing the judge and the club is going to win you any favors next time? "Lots of top breeders will not ever go to this show again." Well then, there you have it, your chances just went up next time. Plus, now they know your name, surely, so you'll be a shoe-in. I'd love to know who these top breeders are, BTW, as most that I've seen know that sometimes they run into judging with which they disagree, clubs which aren't always that organized, or are understaffed and issues with the facilities which are beyond anyone's control. They understand that next year everything will be different, and seldom pledge to stay away from any one show without seeing a pattern of years of abuses.

Now, sarcasm aside, here's some advice. Obviously you've never been involved with exhibiting anything before, but you've broken one of the cardinal unspoken rules, and that is, do not expect one judge to agree and put up a bird that a previous judge has. It shows a profound lack of understanding of the exhibition process and is considered very bad sportsmanship. As Mike said below, sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Sometimes you get one when you deserved the other. It all evens out in the end. You won't be around long if you don't start to understand some of the real yet intangible benefits of being involved with exhibition animals. Understand that there is a reason why all of those big names win. It's not fixed, it's because they deserve it. They've been around for long enough that their lines in most cases usuaully match the standard and/or what the judges are looking for. In many cases even their culls are better than a lot of the backyard competition. In many varieties there really is no competition anymore, and their worst birds from show lines, which may have been laughed out of the show room 50 or even 20 years ago, can be top winners today. In some shows it's even difficult for judges to find quality examples of many of the LF and large WF classes, for example, to put up on CH Row. Someone passing by really questions the judges abilities for placing such a bird, unless he goes back through the group and actually sees the competition, or lack of, I should say. Some of those big names always win because they always do have the best birds, believe it or not. That's why they're so well known. They put in the time and effort, and it shows. Learn what the judges actually look for. Try clerking. Judging is far from as easy as you seem to think it is. Believe it or not, you have a lot to learn, and clerking is a great way. These big guys which you malign due to sour grapes are the people you really need to be learning from. Sure, some of them are incredible jerks ;), but how willing will they be to help you now? Understand what it is you have, and what you don't. Winning BB with a Buff duck of all things, even at an IWBA or APA National does NOT give you THE National Champion Buff duck. Representing your birds that way may impress the children or the relatives who don't know any better, or the BYC crowd, but serious exhibitors who know better consider it ridiculous. Finally, learn what it takes to raise a line of exhibition birds, long term. Congratulations that you got lucky and hatched a bird which several judges seem to have appreciated, but selling eggs or ducklings out of your show winning birds, or continuing to let them "free" range is a recipe for failure, guaranteed.

I just want to appologize to anyone upset with what my husband, Todd, was in disagreement with at the Iowa show. He joined with me about five years ago and he is very proud of our poultry. He was only upset because he knows how much time I put into my breeding program. I, Janel have been showing call ducks here and there since 1998. I have been breeding for show birds ever since. I do my best and I'm am considered new to the show circuit, but I do believe I'm breeding for the future of waterfowl. I did have five varieties of calls, but now I'm concentrating on Butterscotch. I have been working very hard at my breeding programs. I started the Buff and Cayuga Ducks about seven years ago. We cull our low end birds and I give 4H kids and other kids interested in showing good ducks for free. The youth love their poultry and deserve good birds. With all that said, I am doing my best and Todd is behind me 100%.

Patrick, I respect you very much and I know you are one of the top breeders in the world. You an evy have so much knowledge of pretty much anything to do with poultry and it is wonderful to have you here for all of the answers. Thank you for that.

[MKG]

Class act. Congratulations.

[Evy]

I just want to appologize to anyone upset with what my husband, Todd, was in disagreement with at the Iowa show. He joined with me about five years ago and he is very proud of our poultry. He was only upset because he knows how much time I put into my breeding program. I, Janel have been showing call ducks here and there since 1998. I have been breeding for show birds ever since. I do my best and I'm am considered new to the show circuit, but I do believe I'm breeding for the future of waterfowl. I did have five varieties of calls, but now I'm concentrating on Butterscotch. I have been working very hard at my breeding programs. I started the Buff and Cayuga Ducks about seven years ago. We cull our low end birds and I give 4H kids and other kids interested in showing good ducks for free. The youth love their poultry and deserve good birds. With all that said, I am doing my best and Todd is behind me 100%.

Patrick, I respect you very much and I know you are one of the top breeders in the world. You an evy have so much knowledge of pretty much anything to do with poultry and it is wonderful to have you here for all of the answers. Thank you for that.

Thank you, Janel. I hope your husband will come to appreciate the hobby & enjoy it as much as the rest of us do. I couldn't have done it all the years I did without the support & encouragement my late husband gave me.

[Patrick]

Top breeders in the world huh? Top breeder in my town, maybe. But seriously, thanks for setting the record straight. Your husband's support of you is admirable. If we can do it rationally, I'd love to discuss the pros and cons, the do's and don'ts of accepting or rejecting a judge's decision. Good topic for a thread.

[kenmisk]

Patrick, that would be a great idea for a thread, could carry on for days,months even.


Kenmisk

[Grubb Waterfowl]

I '' Todd'' would love to do that also, but there are so few left , would anyone else post a reply?

[Patrick]

Patrick, that would be a great idea for a thread, could carry on for days,months even.


Kenmisk

Now do I detect a hint of skepticism there? Or is it sarcasm? No matter. Try it. What do you have to loose? We have a couple of judges here who I'm sure would just LOVE to see it. So I get a few less Christmas cards this year. I'll live. So a few might not talk to me at the next show. I'll make it from one end of the hall to the other all that much quicker.

Todd, there will be you, me and Ken at least. What more could you ask for? I'll be tied up for the weekend, and may not be able to post, although I'll try. But be assured that I'll be back at you on Monday, bright and, well, ....I'll be bright.

[Evy]

Works for me. Maybe more of the lurkers will chime in.

[Pathfinders]

The one and only time I ever publicly questioned a judges decision was when a judge made one of my birds BB which was of a variety that had not yet been admitted to the Standard.

There was another exhibitor who was also a judge who was showing against me in the breed, and I presumed he would say something, but he did not. So I mentioned it to the show secretary the following morning, and the judge re-did the whole breed. He wasn't very happy about having to do so.

I felt somewhat bad for him, but also was not about to take a win I had not won properly. The judge rightfully gave the win to a bird that belonged to a young man just out of college, who was glad to have it. And I felt good about not "cheating", even though I had done nothing wrong, and would have only won through an error on someone else's part.

Later I got teased by a number of people for "making trouble", but I shrugged that off too.

;)

[MattL]

I would love to chime but would rather have specific questions asked. I do know as a judge I could care less what your bird won at any other place. Throw that in my face and we are done discussing anything. I am only concerened with how your bird compares to the birds at the show I am judging. Remember- we look at your bird for about 1 minute, you see them everyday. Remember- do not fall in love with your birds to the point where you are coop blind and not see their defects. Know your standard before you go spouting off. I had a fellow complain to me about my call duck judging and when I asked him about a certain section in the Standard, he told he did not own one. Go figure. Judges are not perfect, neither are the birds.
Bill Wulff once told me no fancier has the right to complain until they have been a Show Secretary, Breed Club Secretary and a judge. Until you have ran a show and done the work, shut the heck up about any complaints you have unless you offer to help correct them. These people do this for the love of the hobby and do not need greif from people who do nothing to help. Don't complain about how a breed club is ran unless you offer to get in and do some of the work. And the last, as an exhibitor I never expect anything when I go to a show other than to have a great time with my poultry friends. If I win something, I am pleasantly suprised and life goes on till the next show. If I lose, life goes on till the next show. If I think the judge really messed up bad, I will wait till they are done and ask them the questions I need to ask. Thank them for their comments and life goes on till the next show.
The absoulte worst thing you can do in this hobby is show your ass and have a fit at a show. It will ruin your reputation and you will get little respect from anyone involved in the hobby. Just my opinions and of course I am always entertained by everyone here so fire away.
MattL

[MKG]

I only have a problem when judges ignore or seem unaware of the rules and the standard requirements. Here is an example. At the recent Ohio National some of us were showing large fowl Chanteclers. A nice buff cock was awarded best of breed. And another buff was reserve of breed. Several of the partridge variety were also shown. Only problem is, buff is not (yet) in the standard for Chanteclers. The standard only recognizes white and partridge. Nobody had a fit about it or complained, but I have asked show officials who did the judging - to date no response. I would just like to communicate with the judge so he does not potentially embarrass himself in the future. Incidentally I was showing buff, not partridge.

[Pathfinders]

Bill Wulff once told me no fancier has the right to complain until they have been a Show Secretary, Breed Club Secretary and a judge.

Having done the first two, and never wishing to become a judge, I agree with you (except I will point out errors to a show secretary, but always try to do so in a helpful way, and only if they are meaningful ones.)

And the last, as an exhibitor I never expect anything when I go to a show other than to have a great time with my poultry friends. If I win something, I am pleasantly suprised and life goes on till the next show. If I lose, life goes on till the next show. If I think the judge really messed up bad, I will wait till they are done and ask them the questions I need to ask. Thank them for their comments and life goes on till the next show.

I agree completely. :)

The absoulte worst thing you can do in this hobby is show your ass and have a fit at a show. It will ruin your reputation and you will get little respect from anyone involved in the hobby.

I have said before, I'll say again, it's just a show folks. Anyone who gets their panties in a knot about not winning a show needs to re-evaluate their life goals. It's just chickens, after all.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes008.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Brice]

Well put Mr. Matt... well put.....

I would love to chime but would rather have specific questions asked. I do know as a judge I could care less what your bird won at any other place. Throw that in my face and we are done discussing anything. I am only concerened with how your bird compares to the birds at the show I am judging. Remember- we look at your bird for about 1 minute, you see them everyday. Remember- do not fall in love with your birds to the point where you are coop blind and not see their defects. Know your standard before you go spouting off. I had a fellow complain to me about my call duck judging and when I asked him about a certain section in the Standard, he told he did not own one. Go figure. Judges are not perfect, neither are the birds.
Bill Wulff once told me no fancier has the right to complain until they have been a Show Secretary, Breed Club Secretary and a judge. Until you have ran a show and done the work, shut the heck up about any complaints you have unless you offer to help correct them. These people do this for the love of the hobby and do not need greif from people who do nothing to help. Don't complain about how a breed club is ran unless you offer to get in and do some of the work. And the last, as an exhibitor I never expect anything when I go to a show other than to have a great time with my poultry friends. If I win something, I am pleasantly suprised and life goes on till the next show. If I lose, life goes on till the next show. If I think the judge really messed up bad, I will wait till they are done and ask them the questions I need to ask. Thank them for their comments and life goes on till the next show.
The absoulte worst thing you can do in this hobby is show your ass and have a fit at a show. It will ruin your reputation and you will get little respect from anyone involved in the hobby. Just my opinions and of course I am always entertained by everyone here so fire away.
MattL

[Grubb Waterfowl]

Out from under the bus that ran ME over , to back under a semi...Wishes what was wrote was understood........................................ ...The judge asked if we had bird's in this class.Thats how we got to talk about them............ YES I agree, Know your standard before you go spouting off.But if the standard is not used??? That was the complaint..Matt, can you answer this ''?'' as this was the reason I ''TODD'' posted on here............. I hope nobody saw my ass,my wife would kill me...lol...I just hope, all B.S. aside that a judge would look at my duck's and judge them and not me! I just want to appologize for even starting this thread and to everyone here, because some people READ into what they think was said and not what really happened...TODD 269-207-6600 anytime .....

[MattL]

Todd,
I was not there and do not know the judge you had so I can't answer or explain what happened. I only know how I would have handled it if someone accused me of not knowing or using the Standard. First off, we would get it out and I would explain my placings to you as per the point cuts in the standard. Now this is were 90% of the exhibitors lose credibility. Most do not know the value of point cuts and will point out things like too many points on a comb, etc. which in the scheme of things are only minor point cuts. So if I am complaining about a bird is rough in plumage I better know that is only 10 points max in the condition section. If the bird lacks proper sheen, that is a point cut in each section thus more severe. Ultimately the judges decision is final. You can file the protest and the show management will handle that per the APA/ABA rules. No one is perfect and mistakes happen. We all have stong and weak classes and I for one try to work on my weak classes and to be honest I got with Lou Cunningham a few years ago and worked on medium ducks beacuse all the Cayugas and Buff Ducks I came across were too big and had Pekin type. He reaffirmed and gave me a few tips about that class and I have been forever gratefull. It's all in the approach, if you ask questions, most judges and breeders will gladly answer them. You may not agree but you got there opinions and reasons and go on to the next show.
MattL

[Grubb Waterfowl]

Todd,
I was not there and do not know the judge you had so I can't answer or explain what happened. I only know how I would have handled it if someone accused me of not knowing or using the Standard. First off, we would get it out and I would explain my placings to you as per the point cuts in the standard. Now this is were 90% of the exhibitors lose credibility. Most do not know the value of point cuts and will point out things like too many points on a comb, etc. which in the scheme of things are only minor point cuts. So if I am complaining about a bird is rough in plumage I better know that is only 10 points max in the condition section. If the bird lacks proper sheen, that is a point cut in each section thus more severe. Ultimately the judges decision is final. You can file the protest and the show management will handle that per the APA/ABA rules. No one is perfect and mistakes happen. We all have stong and weak classes and I for one try to work on my weak classes and to be honest I got with Lou Cunningham a few years ago and worked on medium ducks beacuse all the Cayugas and Buff Ducks I came across were too big and had Pekin type. He reaffirmed and gave me a few tips about that class and I have been forever gratefull. It's all in the approach, if you ask questions, most judges and breeders will gladly answer them. You may not agree but you got there opinions and reasons and go on to the next show.
MattL

Thank you Matt ! Lou Cunningham knows Med. ducks, we talk at every show since I and Janel got into Cayuga's 4 years ago!.....You helped me out from under the semi.....Again Thank's for the non-ass chewing reply.

[7961]

Lou Cunningham is one of the few better waterfowl judges - period.

[papa]

For someone to complain about the judges at that show is unbelievable and then to leave in a huff. There were SO MANY excellent birds at that show. Almost 2000 entries so not a small show by my standards. I can see how someone might be disappointed with not winning but the competition was very good. Isn't one of the reasons there is a release time is for the security of all exhibitors and their birds. Grow up and respect everyone as I thought that champions row was filled with great birds. That club did a good job of hosting the show! I will be attending that show again next year as I have for the last 5+ years.