Judges ?

[katschicks]

So what makes one judge good and another judge bad in your opinion ? Rog

[Evy]

So what makes one judge good and another judge bad in your opinion ? Rog

Bad....politics & outright dishonesty. Thankfully, there aren't many of them.
Judges that won't retire gracefully when they reach a point where they're unable to perform adequately.

Good...willingness to grab the SOP & look something up if there's any doubt. I have more respect for a person that does that than for the one that won't admit that he / she might not know everything.
Willingness to discuss the decision & answer questions in a friendly manner( after the judging is done! ) The exhibitor needs to do the same. Hostile confrontations don't help anyone.

[kenmisk]

Evy hit the nail on the head. I have clerked for a couple of judges here on the east coast. One of the judges has been a judge for quite some time and guess what, he still kept a SOP in his lab coat , and referred to it a couple of times during the day. Another judge, actually conferred with another judge about an issue with a bird. He also gave every bird a chance to show itself and generally tried every thing he could to get each bird to show . To me this is what a good judge is.

Kenmisk

[Brice]

hey Evy,

i agree..... especially with the willingness to look at the standard.... Its a large book and IMO impossible to memorize every bit of it...

During the call duck judging at the national on one of the colors, a standard was summoned for reference. Very happy to see that happen.

Bad....politics & outright dishonesty. Thankfully, there aren't many of them.
Judges that won't retire gracefully when they reach a point where they're unable to perform adequately.

Good...willingness to grab the SOP & look something up if there's any doubt. I have more respect for a person that does that than for the one that won't admit that he / she might not know everything.
Willingness to discuss the decision & answer questions in a friendly manner( after the judging is done! ) The exhibitor needs to do the same. Hostile confrontations don't help anyone.

[Patrick]

Some excellent points here. I like judges who talk. That wasn't always the case. I used to hate it. Sure, sometimes it can slow things down. A good clerk should know when and how to speak up and get a long-winded judge's ass in gear. That's why I hate seeing these bored kids looking up at the ceiling that a lot of shows get for clerks. Those judges who do talk, make the show a better experience for most involved, IMO. Maybe not so much answering questions, but just pointing out some interesting quality or defect which we don't often see in a bird, for the benefit of everyone around. The clerk should also know how to triage the folks in the aisle, and not let them have access to the judge for questions such as "How do you judge?". Sometimes it is hard; while the clerk is fending off one advance, another sometimes comes in from the other end. I think that too few shows place enough emphasis on the judge/clerk combo as a team, rather than seeing one as merely a scribe for the other.

I too like judges who are not afraid to look in the book. That's one reason why I love the little ABA pocket standard. I just don't get these exhibitors who feel that it shows that the judge knows nothing about the breed. Sometimes that's the case, but often the judge is looking up minor details such as some obscure breed or variety color or marking requirement, DQ or point cut. What some people seem to forget is that the judge usually still knows how to judge, and how to combine and apply the information. IMO some people are confused by, or seem to forget that there is a point schedule, and so ignore it altogether, focusing on some prominent flaw which to them is a big deal, but to the judge, and to anyone else who can read, is only a minor point cut. Sometimes there are blatant mistakes that happen.

I've always thought that we have way too many breeds and varieties combined to expect that anyone really know them all well. I might be wrong, but I don't think that there is an animal exhibition fancy which has more breeds and varieties for an all breed judge to cover than poultry. Pigeons do have more breeds and varieties total, but they generally don't have all breed judges. If we're not number one in number of breeds and varieties for our all breed judges, we're certainly close to the top.

The issue of unrecognized varieties being put up bothers me too. True, there is so much information in the standard, that no one can be expected to remember it all, but I think that at least a judge should know if a variety is recognized or not. This might be understandable if it is ABA recognized but not APA, but this gets into another discussion about how that all works with sanctioned shows. Same thing with getting the classes correct. Sometimes it seems like evey duck recognized after 1977 gets confused as to which class it belongs. I once won Reserve Medium with a Magpie at a very large show. Very nice, except that Magpies are a Light breed. Sure, I could have filed a protest, and would have won, no doubt about it, but instead I quietly approached the clerk and pointed out the mistake, which shouldn't have happened if the clerk was on the ball, by the way. The judge repicked a medium breed as Reserve Medium, finished judging the lights, and picked two runners as Ch and Res Light. Would it have made a difference if he had grouped the Mags with the lights in the first place, or did he really like both runners better than my Mag? We'll never know, but if I had waited until judging was over and filed my justified protest, would my chances have been any better? Maybe, if they had a competent judge rejudge the BB lights, including my Mag this time, but would it have been worth it in the long run? I guess it depends on your outlook, but it turns out that the judge was getting up in years, but previously was very well respected. Who would have looked like the bad guy if I publicly brought attention to his mistake and the beginning of a decline after a long career on top?

Getting into the protest issue, I've also seen it used, justifiably, but for what point? Shortly after Guineas were admitted, I saw an exhibitor file a protest which was upheld by the show-giving club. BTW, said club was not blacklisted or otherwise penalized in any way for upholding the exhibitor's protest against the judge that it hired. The issue was about mismatched wattles, which it appears that the BB bird did have. Very well, but what's wrong with quielty approaching the judge afterward and pointing it out? I mean, it's not like we're talking an OEG or a leghorn or something which actually had a chance of going further. Yes, we've seen it happen with guineas, just like turkeys, but it's sure not probable. Instead, the guineas were rejudged, the BB Guinea was awarded to a more deserving bird. It's nice that all judges involved got a lesson on guineas that day, but it could have happened differently. None of this is to say that I'm against filing protests. They may be helpful in cases of fraud and blatent incompetence, but no one knows more about living with uninformed judging than a turkey exhibitor. Even if all judging is done perfectly, in the end, you win some, you lose some. Don't exhibit if you can't handle that.