Bloodlines and reputations

[Pathfinders]

Hi all,

Need some advice on this one. It would seem that someone is selling hatching eggs from birds that they say are from my bloodlines. But I have never sold birds to this person.

I am somewhat unhappy with this. I suppose it is possible this person obtained some of my stock from someone else, but to sell birds as my bloodlines (which are actually a composite of several others, to be honest, as I always have been about my birds), seems disingenuous at best, and certainly misleading.

How have you all handled such a thing in the past? I welcome any advice.

Thanks,

Laura

[Evy]

Hi all,

Need some advice on this one. It would seem that someone is selling hatching eggs from birds that they say are from my bloodlines. But I have never sold birds to this person.

I am somewhat unhappy with this. I suppose it is possible this person obtained some of my stock from someone else, but to sell birds as my bloodlines (which are actually a composite of several others, to be honest, as I always have been about my birds), seems disingenuous at best, and certainly misleading.

How have you all handled such a thing in the past? I welcome any advice.

Thanks,

Laura

I've had it happen, too. It's flattering, in a way, but I've contacted them & insisted they stop. A threat to post a public disclaimer usually ends it.

[papamike]

we went through something similar many years ago when someone was advertising a stud dog as being from our bloodlines even though the only common ancestor was four generations removed.

We discovered that you can sue for misrepresentation. You first have to contact the party and request that they stop using your name. If that doesn't work you go to court and get a "cease and desist order." Finally, you can bring suit for misrepresentation and actually be awarded damages.

In our case we used a combination of contacting the party using our name, as well as a conversation with the editor of the publication the advertising was appearing in suggesting the possibility of them becoming co-defendants if the advertising continued to appear. The problem was solved almost immediately.

Good luck!

papamike

[Bob308]

I had this happen quite a bit this year with people selling eggs on EBay and birds on Eggbid.
I thought about for about 5 minutes and then moved on.

It is just chickens and for them to think that adding my name to the item would do some good is rather foolish on their part. I don't have a reputation to uphold and didn't let it go to my head.

Bob

[jungle]

I think that there are two genereal reasons why people would advertise the lineage of the birds/eggs they are selling: #1- to let people know what level of quality they are dealing with and potentially get more $ (if it is a good line) and #2 - to simply let people know which line they are in case someone is looking to stay within that line for certain traits. In either case I don't see how one could insist that their name not be used if the line was theirs at some recent point. In my opinion, if you sell birds then it should be expected that the offspring of those birds would be represented as such. I don't think that I should have the exclusive right to sell my stock as my line. If I sell birds I would fully expect any of their offspring to potentially be represented as my line. Honestly, I really don't see what people get so bent out of shape over. I would really like to know just how many people would buy birds from a completely anonymous source without knowing anything about their history or where their stock came from. Potential buyers should understand that just because a person's name is on a certain line does not mean that the quality will still be there.

I suppose this also brings up the inevitable question of how long someone needs to work with a line before it finally becomes their own. Unfortunately, you will likely not get the same answer twice. 5 years ago I purchased my first group of Marans from Bev Davis as she has some of the best stock in the US. I have stayed within the line whenever adding stock and will not purchase animals outside the line. In this case, I need to know what line someone is selling. Whenever I sell I still advertise the birds as Davis line, not my own. Since I have been breeding them for 5 years are they my line yet or not? I don't advertise them as her line to get more $ as I have won enough shows under my name to be known for good color by myself. I have had offspring of birds I sold to people be sold under my name and do not have a problem with it at all. As far as I am concerned it should be expected.

[Evy]

I think that there are two genereal reasons why people would advertise the lineage of the birds/eggs they are selling: #1- to let people know what level of quality they are dealing with and potentially get more $ (if it is a good line) and #2 - to simply let people know which line they are in case someone is looking to stay within that line for certain traits. In either case I don't see how one could insist that their name not be used if the line was theirs at some recent point. In my opinion, if you sell birds then it should be expected that the offspring of those birds would be represented as such. I don't think that I should have the exclusive right to sell my stock as my line. If I sell birds I would fully expect any of their offspring to potentially be represented as my line. Honestly, I really don't see what people get so bent out of shape over. I would really like to know just how many people would buy birds from a completely anonymous source without knowing anything about their history or where their stock came from. Potential buyers should understand that just because a person's name is on a certain line does not mean that the quality will still be there.

I suppose this also brings up the inevitable question of how long someone needs to work with a line before it finally becomes their own. Unfortunately, you will likely not get the same answer twice. 5 years ago I purchased my first group of Marans from Bev Davis as she has some of the best stock in the US. I have stayed within the line whenever adding stock and will not purchase animals outside the line. In this case, I need to know what line someone is selling. Whenever I sell I still advertise the birds as Davis line, not my own. Since I have been breeding them for 5 years are they my line yet or not? I don't advertise them as her line to get more $ as I have won enough shows under my name to be known for good color by myself. I have had offspring of birds I sold to people be sold under my name and do not have a problem with it at all. As far as I am concerned it should be expected.

I don't have a problem with any of the points you make. What I did object to in one person was that she'd taken photos from my picture site & used them to advertise her birds which had to be many generations removed, if even from my stock at all. Another case was a guy who was buying up $5 junk at swaps & passing them off as mine on Eggbid, again with photos. I believe someone finally got him arrested.

[cegs]

When I sell or post an ad off my offspring, I tell folks where the original birds came from. I don’t see how this could be wrong in anyway since I didn’t lay the eggs to start my flock. Everyone obtained their original birds from somewhere. And I paid more money for the birds being that they came from a well known breeder who is suppose to have top quality.

Can birds get registered like other farm animals? I can say my birds came from here but I can also back it up with sales receipt. Does that mean the birds are true to the original breeder? I guess it’s only how honest the seller is.

Reading Evy’s post made me think of what I see all the time in ads. “photos” Why do I see the same photos posted for different hatcheries?

Cally

[funkyfeathers]

Since the 1880's? Dang, you ARE old! Lol!!

[Oregon Swedes]

As long as we are going to bring old discussions back to the top, I can see how Pathfinder would be upset if someone bought junk eggs, thinking they were Pathfinder birds and then went around telling the world they had bought pathfinder's birds and they were junk.

But I can see the other side, too. So many people have hatchery birds, that I would like to know where their original stock came from. I don't see any objection to "My original stock came from XXXXX" in an ad. At least it gives me hope that the birds aren't hatchery quality.

As a separate issue, too many people lie these days. Apparently it is now clever to get away with something instead of dishonest. So it is really buyer beware out there when purchasing in Internet Land.

As for the idea of contacting the originator of the line, that only works if it is possible to locate them. I just spent a lot of time trying to locate a fellow with Swedish Blue ducks. His published phone # has been disconnected. I found his town but not his mailing address. I've contacted everyone in the state that has the same name, and none have been him. So, if you want people who want your line to come directly to you, can people find you?

[mamagoose]

I am opposed to someone using my name and/or photos, without my permission, to sell birds. I also find it unnecessary, when selling birds, to voluntarily identify the original breeder of the stock when the bird in question was hatched in my own yard. When do birds start becoming your own, and not "so-and-so's" birds? I see no problem giving credit to the breeder from whom original stock was acquired, if asked, but don't feel it fair to use someone else's name for my own personal/financial gain. Give credit where credit is due - take responsibility for choosing a mating pair producing good birds.