Breeding For Yellow Legs in Black Cochins

[Glenda L Heywood]

Cochin footfeathering info
" Subject: Cochin Critique, aka, foot feathers
from http://www.poultryconnection.com
Crazy4Cochins

Don't hold back or I won't learn from mistakes!

The 2 barreds are hatchery birds & look better to me then the buffs which are from a breeder & parents were show birds. The buffs are actually 1-2 weeks older then the barreds & all are roughly 3 months old. The barreds are starting to get the round look of cochins but the buff is very slow maturing & has very tight feathers so i've got little hope in him, although I do know their a slow maturing breed.

My main concern is their feet. I keep thinking every toe is supposed to be feathered, but I don't think so?

Forgive the pics. The birds haven't been taught to pose yet & i'm still learning to get half decent pics of chickens lol.

http://www23.brinkster.com/betweenminds/show.html


REDROO

You have some fine looking young birds! I always wanted some of the
partridge cochins. Enjoy watching them mature, they will only improve
with age.


Exhibiton Waterfowl->D


Hi there,

i know they're only 3 months old but they should have more of a tail than what they have now. The barred pullets look fairly good. The ######### neck should be alot shorter. And they could use alot more cochin "puffiness" now it's hard to tell how they're gonna look when they're full grown at 3 months old but what i mentioned above is what you're going to want to see in your birds. hope i could help! good luck!


Crazy4Cochins

The buffs are proof that breeding is always a crapshoot. I got to see the parents & they were all one shade of buff, no white, & little puffballs. There are to many things about them right now that i'm "hoping" will be fixed with their first molt for me to say their anything other then pet bird quality right now.

Out of 8 cochins my barreds are the best looking. Figured I can practice & learn with my barreds before I get some show quality young adults this fall from a respected breeder. Slowly their feathers are loosening to give them the puffy appearence. I'll keep an eye out to see if they get more tail feathers. Might change with age or our ducks might have pulled some out (blasted ducks...first & last time we have them). Yea, I know they'll change more with age, figured there are still things that can be spotted right now like my 2nd roo thats developed a funky comb.

REDROO


I still think they are nice birds! Have you ever done business with these
folk? http://www.blackforestpoultry.com/chicks.html
They have show quality poultry.


Crazy4Cochins

I've seen their site but really want to wait till this fall. Messed up majorly & didn't get to go to the Guild-Rand spring show, was supposed to look at some of Judy Gantt's black cochins to buy. Which is why i've got to wait for the fall show. Have heard nothing but good things about her birds & really want to see what i'm getting.


Bill McGee

I am having a hard time with the type, nothing to compare size to. - are they largefowl or bantam?

FOOT FEATHERING: Should have feathers on outside tow & to the last joint on the middle toe (some have fuzz on the inner toe too)

YES. !!! Judy has some excellent Blacks


Crazy4Cochins


Thanks! I was wondering about the inner toe! Most pics don't show the feet or their just so fuzzy so I couldn't tell!

These are bantams. Hmm, can't get hold of the camera to get size comparison pics. The barreds are roughly 6 1/2" tall (ground to back)/7" long (chest to butt/rump but not to the end of the tail feathers), the buff is roughly 5 1/2" tall/6" long.


Bill McGee

Lets see if this works !! This is a 3 week old chick.

See the white near the ankle joint on the inner toe
& the 2 little tuffs on the back toe?? Thats fluff

NOW THE FUN PART - ANYONE WANT TO GUESS WHAT VARIETY (COLOR) OF COCHIN THIS IS?


REDROO

Blue?


Bill McGee

That is a good guess, but its NOT Blue


REDROO

Ok Bill, I`ll try again. How about a Splash?

Crazy4Cochins

Hmm, one of the feathers looks penciled to me, but I can't think of any colors that would have penciling on their feet.


Bill McGee

Not Splach, not Pencilled. This, for all you Cochin Fans, is a BLACK. Now, it has a lot more white in it than you would expect, but Black Cochins are basically Yellow Legged Black birds. In order to have the yellow in the feet/legs & the proper amount of yellow (Horn color) in the beaks as well as the proper color eyes, it is necessary to have a lot of yellow down in the chicks. This chick has an excessive amount.

HOWEVER, if this chick turns out to be a Pullet (& it looks like it at this age, --- Pullets tend to cover all white in the chick feathering better than Males.. If this turns out to be a Male, there is a good possibility that it will carry more white foot feathers than what a person would want in a Show Bird.

This chick is alrready showing some special qualities. Great foot feathering, more than normal width of chest, mostly yellow beak (balck spots on both nostrils) (here again, Males tend to keep more yellow in beaks than females), very level stance, which will translate into forward tilt at about 4 months. Good depth & width for a chick this age AND it loves to show off (very friendly). All the traits that make a Cochin a Cochin. Wether it continues to develop into a show bird depends on how well it covers all this white & how it feathers (width & length)

There is another positive quality about this chick. If it does not turn out to be show quality, because it carries all this white (I call it yellow down), it would make an exceptional breeder for birds that carry to much black (to dark), PROVIDING it has all the other traits tha make a good Cochin.

Its a crap-shoot, but I have already picked this bird to be ONE of the POSSIBILITIES I have hatched this year.


Bill McGee

NOW, C4C, Your birds. -- I think that the Buffs are going to turn out better than you think.

The Barreds are bigger than they should be & they dont carry the depth of body & they appear to stand to tall. They also don't appear to have the loose feathering they should

Both of these varieties usually don't carry the type of the other varieties, mainly like the Whites & Blacks, BUT, for their varieties, they don't look bad. Cochins are slow to develop & these have a lot of growing to do. TIME TELLS ALL WITH COCHINS. Hang onto them, watch them mature, I'm GUESSING the Buffs are going to be the better birds.

Crazy4Cochins


Actually Bill, the barreds have very loose feathering, the pullet has the best feathering out of my 8 cochins (so far anyways). The buff's feathers lay tight against them. Got my fingers crossed that the buffs are just very slow maturing.

Yea, i've read they won't be at their peak until like a year.

Thats interesting about the blacks! I'll have to keep that in mind when I get some.


Bill McGee


8 months is minimum on maturity for Cochins. They don't really completely mature for - about 1 year.

OH, YA, you were supposed to get some from Judy. When you get them you will see immediately how the varieties differ.

Crazy4Cochins

Yea, I can tell differences between my varieties so far. Have already decided I don't really like my reds. Was planning on hatching & keeping pullets from all my bantams. but I think i'm just going to let the reds brood brood porcelain d'Uccle chicks.

My trio of reds are driving me up the walls. First they were millie fluer colored, now their poorly colored reds or millies. One of the pullets has kept the goldish millie fluer & lots her spots, really looked at her closely last week & noticed her feathers look a gene or two away from being silkie feathered. Maybe when they molt they'll look a LOT better.

Can't wait to get some blacks. Planning on getting some silver laces as well. Not SQ mind you, just pet ones cause I just want them for looks.

Bill McGee


Update on the foot feathering of the chick"s feet, pictured above.


The Chick hatched almost completely yellow. It had a small amount of black low on the back of its neck & a round black spot on it back. Neck to tail & wing joint to wing joint. All its body, wings & head were yellow

This bird is starting to cover (molt) the white down replacing it with black. The Chest motteling will gradually disappear (also molting) & be replaced with totally black feathers. A big help here is that this appears to be a Female, which have a tendence to molt darker (more black) than Males.

This chick started with a totally yellow beak. As they mature more black appears, on both males & feamles. Normally, Males will retain more yellow at maturity than Females

dajfield


Bill, what if the bird has all black feet and beak? - just curious
- Danielle


Bill McGee

If you are talking about a Cochin, that is not good. Check the bottom of the feet, those HAVE to be yellow. There are a lot of Black Cochins out there that are way to dark in the legs & beak. Carrying to much Black in the legs (meaning that they didn't carry a lot of yellow down as chicks) also has an affect on the face & eye color. The face will be darker red, at times almost gypsie color, & the eye will be a dark brown instead of being reddish bay.

It is impossible to have the leg completely yellow, unless the bird has white leg/foot feathers, like a White Cochin. The black from the feathers on the blacks bleed into the pigment of the legs & turns them dark brown to black. You can see some of that happening on the foot feather pictures I have posted. The early ones show a completely yellow leg, the later one shows the feet turning a brownish yellow. But the pads/bottom of her feet are bright yellow & I would expect it to go up the inside of her leg some.

The Beak will continue to darken. I would expect this one to be a light yellow horn color with quite a bit of yellow near the head

There is a limit on how much white/yellow down a chcik can have. I don't know what that limit is - yet - because I have never had a bird, even as light as the one in this picture, that did not molt out to a totally black bird.. Males are more prone to having to much white in foot feathers & are also more likely to carry white in the undercolor if the are to light. I know I have some males that are almost as light as this pullet, that I am going to have to watch. The good part of having birds that are light, some white foot feathers is, they ma

[micofwis]

There are those who theorize that to consistently produce blacks with good yellow legs on both sexes that a system of double mating must be used. It is possible to get yellow legged males using E (extended black) at the e-locus, while yellow legged females must have e>b (brown) at the e locus with certain necessary color enhancing genes. The e>b black males will often have off-colored feathers, so are not suitable for showing, while E females almost invariably have that pesky black on the legs. We did some limited experimentation with this theory using Black Wyandotte bantams (E based) and Silver Laced Wyandotte bantams (e>b based). In limited testing a couple of female blacks with decent yellow legs were produced, one of which won a BV in good competition. That was some years ago, and we gave up the blacks because we didn't want to continue with double mating.