Cattle resources

[Altair]

For anyone who has cattle and has reading material to nominate, I'm looking to educate myself. This would be for homesteading more or less, no large operation. Beef, dairy, or dual cattle apply. Textbooks, pamphlets, I'm not shy when it comes to reading.

Thanks
-D.

[Oregon Swedes]

If you go over to Homesteading Today, they have a nice little cattle forum. A couple of real ranchers, lots of people with 2-3 head, several people asking questions about how to get into cattle, 2-3 people with dairies.

I've had cattle for years and my in-laws raised cattle and I haven't seen anything outrageously stupid said over there. I think that most of the advice given is pretty darn good and a lot of it is aimed at people getting started. Ditto for the pig forum. Pretty reasonable advice all around.

[Altair]

Thanks for the tip, I'm viewing as we speak - er type.

-Danielle

[Patrick]

If you go over to Homesteading Today, they have a nice little cattle forum. A couple of real ranchers, lots of people with 2-3 head, several people asking questions about how to get into cattle, 2-3 people with dairies.

I've had cattle for years and my in-laws raised cattle and I haven't seen anything outrageously stupid said over there. I think that most of the advice given is pretty darn good and a lot of it is aimed at people getting started. Ditto for the pig forum. Pretty reasonable advice all around.

I don't agree. Yes, there are some decent, intelligent questions, and a few equally good answers, but there is an awful lot of nonsense to wade through too. I'll agree that much of it doesn't quite stoop to the moronic level of BYC, but there's way too much crap there for me to tolerate, and way too many holy rollers shoving their views in your face.

[Oregon Swedes]

Yes, but Patrick, you don't like anyone. That's your charm.

Altair is smart enough to pick through information. Forums are open to the world, so the offerings are always mixed in value.

If you have a cattle forum where everything said is always brilliant, I'd like to join it. BYC has a sister livestock site and I've never bothered to even go and look, since I wouldn't be expecting much, but maybe I'm wrong about that site. I haven't seen it, so I don't know what's over there.

There's no usage of the cattle forum on this site, which means it isn't a good source of information.

[Altair]

I use the same general screening process with BYC as with Homesteading Today. I haven't visited either in a few months. I did get a book on grass fed cattle after looking at reviews from Amazon which is a start of a more extensive collection. Research is enjoyable.

[Patrick]

Yes, but Patrick, you don't like anyone. That's your charm.

Altair is smart enough to pick through information. Forums are open to the world, so the offerings are always mixed in value.

If you have a cattle forum where everything said is always brilliant, I'd like to join it. BYC has a sister livestock site and I've never bothered to even go and look, since I wouldn't be expecting much, but maybe I'm wrong about that site. I haven't seen it, so I don't know what's over there.

There's no usage of the cattle forum on this site, which means it isn't a good source of information.

LMAO! Well, a few people do slip through the cracks and get on my good side, but I try to keep it to a minimum.

One may be smart enough to pick through for the good information, but that's not the point. IMO, if there's too much of the other stuff, it's not worth it. A novice or someone who's just not that astute may have a hard time deciding what is correct and what isn't, making that source not a good one overall, IMO. Not everything that is posted here or at showbird is brilliant, but people are going to get correct information in the end.

I did try to give it a good shot. I'm looking for information myself on how to properly finish grassfed cattle, or finding out if it's even possible, and not just another fairy tale that has become popular in recent years among the misty mornings and rainbows crowd, like Guineafowl ridding one's property of ticks. I didn't have much luck over there.

You are right about your guess about BYC's sister site. In some ways it's even worse, if you can believe that, because they're getting into dealing with large, potentially dangerous animals, but they're treating them like they treat chickens. You've heard of the Facebook killers which got all the media attention? Well I'm waiting for the first death from someone's animal because they took advice over there. Not that I want anyone to be harmed, but if it happens I sure hope that it gets the same headlines, and BYH gets just as much blame as Facebook did.

[Oregon Swedes]

I've got a soft spot in my heart for curmudgeons, so you are on my like list, Patrick. Also because I don't find anything to fault with your advice, which is always an opinion raiser. Sometimes I don't agree with you, but it is very rare for there to be just one right answer and even when I don't agree with you, I don't think you are wrong.

The new grass fed fad seems to involve cattle that have been fed nothing but pasture. Not very interesting to me, but hey, I don't care too much what other people eat. My opinion is that grass fed cattle are better if they are slightly older before they are butchered. It is also my opinion that the quality of grass fed cattle is very influenced by the breed raised.

With beef, the most important input is the quality and skill of the butcher. I've eaten beef fed nothing but grass that was really delicious and tender. On the other hand, some of it is not so nice. Some pasture will support fat cattle, some doesn't meet their needs so well.

I raise my own cattle with grain their entire life. I want those fat molecules laid down inside the muscle from the get-go. If I wanted really lean red meat, I would purchase bison. I don't care for really lean beef.

I've got farm raised elk in my freezer. It is really lean meat and very good, delicious and tender. I consider that to be a better option than beef without any fat in it. Most of the flavor in beef comes from the fat.

Also just my opinion: home raised beef is better than store bought for the same reason that home raised chicken is better. The animal has better care, more exercise, less stress. And again, the skill of the butcher. Properly butchered beef is aged a long time and the commercial processors can't afford to spend that time and pay for all that refrigeration. So the meat in the store hasn't been properly aged.

Are you raising grass fed for yourself or hoping to raise them to sell to the yuppies?.

[Oregon Swedes]

If you don't want to wade through nonsense in order to get good information, the best place to look is the web pages and bulletins from the various agricultural colleges that have beef divisions in their college. They will have some research to back up their claims.

I like The Capitol Press for good agricultural information, but that is strictly west coast. There is probably an agricultural newspaper in your area.

[katschicks]

[QUOTE=Patrick;14279

I did try to give it a good shot. I'm looking for information myself on how to properly finish grassfed cattle, or finding out if it's even possible, and not just another fairy tale that has become popular in recent years among the misty mornings and rainbows crowd, like Guineafowl ridding one's property of ticks. I didn't have much luck over there.[/QUOTE]

There is no finishing to grassfed beef. When they reach the weight you want to butcher them on grass you just go ahead and have them butchered. They breed beef cattle for the ability to gain on nothing but grass now. Have some relatives that have been breeding their Angus that way for several years now. We used to buy a 300 to 350 lb heifer each year from them. At the time I usually had from 10 to 15 colts to wean each year. I put the colts on creep feed and would get a heifer and stick her in with them when all the colts were weaned. At around 700 lb`s I would have her butchered. The colts would push and chase her around and she never got feedlot fat. Really fit though. Made for really good eating. The cutting and workingcow horse trainers now creep feed the calves they use to train the horses with. The cattle last longer and don`t sour as fast and are ready to butcher when they sell them. It`s actually cheaper in the long run for them than just turning the cattle out on pasture and using them. The higher price they bring when they sell them and not having to switch cattle as often makes it cheaper in the long run. My point. Grain fed and exercise make better eating. Rog PS A touch of Brahma blood helps too.

[Angela]

I'm with Rog.
I grain my calves up until the pasture comes in, usually through the winter...about 6 months. Then it's pasture only until they are ready to go to market. I've got three ready to go to market this week, so they are being grained until they are loaded up to go....but they are 700lbs or better. I like my beef fatty. I've eaten the leaner meats such as the Belgian Blues. They are AWEFUL. Tough and chewy. The lovely fat marbling keeps the beef from being dry and stringy.
However, I do not run the calves with my horses....I have a paint gelding that's meaner then sin. He would do damage to them. So, they are in separate pastures, with the calves having the best.

[Oregon Swedes]

Guinea hens don't eat ticks?

[Oregon Swedes]

Also, I don't butcher at 700 pounds. I get about 700 pounds hanging weight, which means the steers were probably somewhere between 1000 pounds to 1200 pounds when butchered.

600-700 pounds seems to be about the size that the feedlots buy them, so that's when they get sent to the live market.

That's interesting about the flavor of Brahma. I'll probably never get to try one. Although I would have been willing to raise some Beef Master if they hadn't been so outrageously expensive to purchase. They've at least got Brahma in them. Out of my price range, though.

[Angela]

I don't eat beef very often, and I don't butcher my own. They always go to market. This is a "no kill" farm, for real.
My "X" raised Beef Master when we were married. Just a name. Never could quite understand the hype. For the most part, Angus, Beef Master, Hereford, Charlois...and or whatever....all tastes the same to me. As long as it's a good cut of meat. But, I will cash in on the name recognition.

Yes, I'm sure guineas eat ticks. Birds eat bugs, ticks are bugs, so it's logical to assume that guineas eat ticks. I'm also sure that they won't rid your property of them...but they'll eat a few.

[goosedragon]

Not about beef Ticks are NOT bugs! bugs have 6 legs, ticks have 8 legs like spiders. The arguement is still valid.

[Angela]

Honestly, I've never looked close enough to count their legs. I've always been to busy.....running and screaming far away from them. I do believe that ticks are one of the largest crops grown in MO. Nasty little buggers.

Sorry, my bad

[Oregon Swedes]

I've never had Guineas, so I'm simply discussing to be discussing.

Don't Guineas eat spiders? And centipedes, and slugs? I don't think they care how many legs.

For all I know, ticks are too small for them to notice. But I'd think that if they eat ticks, they'd eat a lot of ticks.

I've got a healthy crop of grasshoppers and the only place where you won't see even a single grasshopper is in my orchard where the ducks live. Any grasshopper foolish enough to enter gets chased down. I'd think that if Guineas would eat ticks, they'd eat every tick they see and would probably eat a lot of them.

I solve the issue by living where there are no ticks. A Guinea hen probably wouldn't live long enough to eat ticks around here. They don't like being penned up and there are lots of critters willing to eat them.

[Patrick]

Guinea hens don't eat ticks?

Of course they do. So do chickens, ducks, turkeys, peafowl, etc, and they have since they were first kept by man. The point was that some enterprising guinea breeder or hatchery marketing pitchman decided upon the idea as a gimic, simply to sell more birds. Around 20 years ago all of a sudden they started promoting the idea, and the gullible bought into it, just because that's what "they" say. Today I often hear it repeated, usually with the air of authority by some BYCish soccer mom type who has a vague idea of the basics of keeping poultry, but not the abilty to think for herself. Chickens would be just as hard on the ticks on her property, plus they're quieter, easier to catch and would make more usable eggs, but that doesn't occur to her because chickens are promoted already for all of their obvious other benefits. Guineas don't do any of those as well, so someone had to justify them somehow, other than just being interesting birds in their own right, because that just doesn't sell without a catch.

You're right about grain fed beef, but then the hazards for us of eating that meat frequently and for long term are now well known as well. Like most new or relatively new claims, I view grass fed beef with more than a little scepticism, but I still like to research new ideas for myself. Not all new ideas turn out to be wrong. Like many things, on the surface grass fed beef makes sense by the arguments that are presented by it's proponents, but so does DE, and anyone with a brain knows that it doesn't work as promoted. The grass fed crowd claims that lack of fat, or rather a different type of fat resulting from their methods does not make the meat dry and tasteless, supposedly if it is raised, handled and prepared right. I just want to find out what supposedly is "right", and if it really does work as they say.

[Oregon Swedes]

Ticks stay up in trees, so I would think that guineas are better at eating ticks because the guineas are up in the trees. I don't keep Guineas. They'd be a lollipop on a stick sitting up there on a branch. A nice snack for someone.

The pasture raised cattle around here are fat. Grass fed beef wouldn't necessarily be lean meat. Loosely interpreted, grass fed would be pasture raised and thus not feedlot beef. I would consider my own pasture raised beef to be grass fed. They lived every day of their lives on pasture, but they also got grain every day of their lives. The purists insist that doesn't qualify as grass fed.

Home raised beef should be better tasting than feedlot beef. If it is dry and tough, it hasn't been fed right; which I guess would mean that the pasture wasn't adequate. If a beef raiser is touting his lean dry tough beef as more healthful, he is making excuses for doing a poor job of raising his cattle.

I haven't a clue whether or not the fat would be different. I do know that home raised should be much better tasting. The same thing as eggs: sunshine, exercise, limited stress improves the product.

My math says that cattle fed nothing but pasture should be cheaper to produce, so I don't get why it costs lots more.

[Angela]

[QUOTE=Oregon Swedes;14363]Ticks stay up in trees, so I would think that guineas are better at eating ticks because the guineas are up in the trees. I don't keep Guineas. They'd be a lollipop on a stick sitting up there on a branch. A nice snack for someone.

Who told you that ticks live in trees? They are everywhere, particularly in high grass. Around here, you can bump any type of plant, and have millions of ticks swarming you like ants....except many times smaller. Any poultry/bird will eat ticks, and they are readily available to all.


My math says that cattle fed nothing but pasture should be cheaper to produce, so I don't get why it costs lots more.


When is the last time you fertilized a pasture? We spend thousands of dollars a year on our pasture/grazing land. Not to mention the physical labor involved. Unless you have a couple goats that will eat anything, good pasture is expensive to maintain. Around here, fescue is the main graze, but I prefer not to have my horses on it. So we change our grazing to orchard grass or something similar. There is also a large amount of clover. Contrary to popular opinion, clover is not always the best or most desired grazing. It's not just "pasture", it's another cash crop for farmers, so it requires time and money.[quote/]