my chickens are sick... help!

[majorissuesinc]

please help me!!! my chickens have been dropping like flies lately and im not sure why. we first noticed there was a problem when we found a dead one one morning that we didnt even know was sick. then we did start noticing sick birds. only one gets sick, he becomes very weak, loses ability to fly, falls over frequently, then dies. once it is dead the cycle starts over. one thing i think could be a culprit is the weather we have been having here. the chickens have a coop but are in an enclosed building with a cement floor. the outside is covered in chicken wire. when it rains, it washes onto the concrete and creates a muck. i try often to scrape the floor to rid of the muck. however, someone told me that the chickens might really just be starving to death from malnurishment. she said that their throats are swelling and the food stays in the gullet and they cant swallow. if this is the case, how would i treat them?

[Pathfinders]

Generally you will find that members of this forum are uncomfortable answering questions such as this. Do you have a County Extensions office in your County? A 4-H agent you could call? It might be best to have someone actually come to your location and see your birds. And if you have a number dying, it would be good to get one autopsied to see if a specific disease can be found.

You may also wish to call your local large animal vet, he or she may have experience with poultry (although many don't) or know a vet in your area who does.

I fear we just can't help from a distance. Sorry that you're dealing with this now, my sympathies. Best of luck with it.

[Patrick]

I don't presume to speak for anyone else. I'm far from uncomfortable trying to answer questions like these, it's just that there's usually no good way to get a feel for what is really going on, given the type of description that is given, nor to provide an accurate answer. Call 4h or a county extension agent?? LMAO! THEY are often the ones who need advice on proper poultry management. Usually they just spout some outdated commercial poultry management ideas, which often don't apply to backyard flocks.

Majorissues, you already know where to start. Clean up your coop and find a way to prevent that runoff. Be sure to provide good ventilation, and plenty of clean food and water, every day. Only then will you be able to determin if you have a disease process going on, or if your problems are strictly due to management. One thing is certain, bad weather does not kill healthy chickens which are properly cared for.

[MKG]

Quote: "Prescription without diagnosis equals malpractice." But here is an idea you might try. Sometimes toxins are present in the grains used to manufacture feed. Why not try switching brands/manufacturers and see if it helps. And yes, provide an environment that is clean. Who knows, maybe some lawn poison is being washed in along with that mud.

[Evy]

I've been criticized for suggesting that people buy a good book & study it BEFORE acquiring birds ( or any animal ), but I'll say it again ! There many available at most feed / pet stores, TSC, etc. as well as book stores. There are also current suggestions on the home page here. Gail Damerow's are excellent for beginners. Many of us that have been involved for years have collections of them. It can be a lifesaver when no one's on the internet to answer a question. You're more apt to get a correct answer, rather than just sympathy or utter nonsense, too.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by MKG

Quote: "Prescription without diagnosis equals malpractice." But here is an idea you might try. Sometimes toxins are present in the grains used to manufacture feed. Why not try switching brands/manufacturers and see if it helps. And yes, provide an environment that is clean. Who knows, maybe some lawn poison is being washed in along with that mud.

Not quite. Doctors often prescribe medications without a diagnosis. For example, they will send home antibiotics for a suspected infection, while waiting for culture results to return from the lab. Only when they have the results do they have a diagnosis. Be that as it may, it still doesn't apply here, because malpractice assumes that one is licensed to practice, otherwise it would be practicing without a license. That still does not apply to giving medical advice over the internet, which in most cases is not practicing, it is just foolish speculation. That is why when one calls their veterinarian, they are usually told to come in to see the doctor, unless it's a prior condition that the doctor has already seen. It's not just to get you to spend money. Prescribing medication without examining the patient IS malpractice in most states.

With or without "lawn poison" in the mud, it's still not a good idea to have it. One could have the most pristine mud going, but it still doesn't belong in the chicken coop. Switching feeds is not a bad suggestion, but before going off on all kinds of other tangents, maybe it would be a good idea to focus on the obvious problem first.

[gregrag]

Keep your birds clean and dry--thats the best you can do for them .So many people never clean out their coops and then wonder why their birds are'nt healthy--I'm not saying that's your case but the fact is you just have to keep their environment in good shape. Cool and damp weather is a grand time for Coccidiosis to raise its ugly head. like the others have said before you need to find out what the problem is and then go after it....Greg

[MKG]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Not quite. Now you're getting technical on me Patrick. It was a figure of speech used to make a point. Doctors often prescribe medications without a diagnosis. For example, they will send home antibiotics for a suspected infection, while waiting for culture results to return from the lab. But they have narrowed it down - I did not say a SPECIFIC diagnosis. Only when they have the results do they have a diagnosis. specific - hopefully, unless they happen to be wrong Be that as it may, it still doesn't apply here, because malpractice assumes that one is licensed to practice, otherwise it would be practicing without a license. Not necessarily when used in the broad sense That still does not apply to giving medical advice over the internet, which in most cases is not practicing, it is just foolish speculation. That is why when one calls their veterinarian, they are usually told to come in to see the doctor, unless it's a prior condition that the doctor has already seen. It's not just to get you to spend money. Prescribing medication without examining the patient IS malpractice in most states. That is the point

Mike

Pat, I usually agree with your posts, sorry to seem contradictory. By the way, do you know any good "Pat and Mike" jokes? Or don't they have those in your area? By the way, are you coming to the Ohio National? I would love to shake your hand and maybe quaff a cold beverage over further discussion.

[robin416]

I might have missed it but no one mentioned sending a bird that died in for necropsy to establish what is going on.

As to prescribing or not, anyone with some good basic knowledge of what drugs do for which disease processes can make an educated recommendation. But per Federal Law a vet can not prescribe a prescription drug without having first established a contact with the animal in question.

The original poster has not provided enough to do more than Greg has recommended. There is a great deal of information missing.

[Pathfinders]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I don't presume to speak for anyone else. I'm far from uncomfortable trying to answer questions like these, it's just that there's usually no good way to get a feel for what is really going on, given the type of description that is given, nor to provide an accurate answer. Call 4h or a county extension agent?? LMAO! THEY are often the ones who need advice on proper poultry management. Usually they just spout some outdated commercial poultry management ideas, which often don't apply to backyard flocks.

Jeez Patrick, is there ANYTHING that I said you agree with?

LOL...

[Pathfinders]

Originally Posted by robin416

I might have missed it but no one mentioned sending a bird that died in for necropsy to establish what is going on.

I did, actually.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by Pathfinders

Jeez Patrick, is there ANYTHING that I said you agree with?

LOL...

Given that this seems to be more of a management issue than a disease issue, your advice to have an experienced poultry person visit and assess the situation in person, wasn't bad.

[Pathfinders]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Call 4h or a county extension agent?? LMAO! THEY are often the ones who need advice on proper poultry management. Usually they just spout some outdated commercial poultry management ideas, which often don't apply to backyard flocks.

Well, there are a number of 4-H leaders and County Extension agents who are also long time members of the ABA/APA, and show regularly. Doug Akers comes to mind, as does Jamie Dockery, and oh yes, me. Certified Livestock Leader and all that. So turning to a local 4-H resource is not always a bad idea, fwiw.