Dry type incubation in styrofoam cooler incubator

[dave27889]

I think I might have been drowning my baby chicks. I use a homemade stryrofoam cooler incubator. I have 3 of them and a hova-bator 1602n with a added fan. I had really lousy hatches the last couple of times using these type incubators. I lost some really expensive eggs. The chicks were fully formed but dead. I think they may have drowned.
Several people on here thought I might should give dry incubation a try. I am using cheaper eggs and all 4 incubator. I am doing different types of incubation in each incubator. I am dry incubating in the Hova-bator and laying the eggs on their sides and marked with X and O. I am turning by hand in all incubators. I am incubating 20 eggs in each incubator. No less than 25 percent humidity and no more than 35percent humidity until day 18 then the higher humidity and no turning.
The 1st cooler type incubator is getting 20 eggs today and the eggs are in holders. I am lifting the ends and putting a small book under the end to give me a 45 degree angel on the eggs instead of turning them. I will turn all the eggs in each cooler at the same time and the same amount of times. I am dry incubating this set of eggs also. No less than 25 percent humidity and no more than 35percent humidity until day 18 then the higher humidity and no turning.
The next incubator will be set up the normal way with the eggs in holders and the humidity up higher but still I am not going above 40 percent for the first 18 days. I have been having it at aroud 50 percent and I think I was drowning the chicks. I will the raise the humidity up to 70 percent day 19, 20 and 21.
The last set will be the same as the third one except I am laying the eggs on their sides and marking them X and O. I will operate the humidity the same as incubator number 3. I should find my balance this way. All the eggs in the above test are going to be shipped eggs as I can't find 80 fertile eggs localy. I know the shipping part will influence the hatching but It should not affect the chicks dying at almost hatching time. I really think I have been drowning my chicks. I keep everything clean and it all is in the same room in the house that I live in and we have ac going. There is no direct sunlight and no draft and no sudden temp changes. I use the same type temp and humidity gauge in all the incubators. I also have regular themomators in each box to double check.
I did not mean to write a paper but wanted to put evrything out on the table. Please if you have any HELPFUL suggestions please help. I hate killing these chicks and it is expensive. Thanks in advance, Dave

[robin416]

Dave, are you using anything to monitor the humdity?

[bargain]

Think I helped you over on BYC on this same issue. Please pm me I've been trying to get ahold of you re a NSF Check I received from you on purchased eggs.

Thanks!

[ritterhahn]

I got an incubator as a Christmas present when I was 13. My Grandfather gave it to me to foster my interest in the Watermaal bantams I was keeping. After a few very frustrating goes with it (and one bad electric shock), I managed to work it out. You need patience, common sense, and a methodical mind – in short, all the things a 13 year-old boy lacks.

Incubators are strange little things – each is its own master. Like a good fly fishing rod, you have to get to know each one to be able to work with it productively. I do not think a first time trial should be done with (1) a homemade machine (2) several different kinds of machine at once, each with a different set of operating parameters. This is not a science fair project – you are being needlessly complex: it is counter productive.

MY ADVICE: pick one machine (not a homemade one), and get some eggs from a local farmer – NOT shipped, but ones you pick up yourself.

Look at incubation as a two-fold operation: eggs and machine. You can go badly wrong with one aspect and do well with another and get poor results. BOTH have to be in optimal states to expect a decent hatch.

EGGS: You must understand that a good egg comes from a healthy hen fed good food. She must be kept under sound conditions: she must not be crowded, have room to exercise. The nest box must be clean. The ratio of cocks to hens must be correct. Under such conditions, one can expect excellent eggs with good fertility (of course, from time to time a breeding pen can disappoint, but not usually if husbandry is sound). This of course means the eggs have come from your own birds. Use eggs that are not badly soiled.

SHIPPED EGGS are a different matter: you will get poor results with shipped versus fresh eggs. The rough handling of the post means potential damage for the eggs. Check shipped eggs and remove cracked or badly soiled ones; with a candling light see if there are any cracks in the eggs (yes, do use the light – fine cracks are invisible to the eye under normal light). Cracked eggs MUST be discarded. If not, they will rot and possibly burst – will contaminate and kill any other eggs developing normally. Under the candling light examine the YOLK – if you see bubbles below the air sack discard the egg. Any eggs remaining are your best hope – they still may be damaged in a way you cannot see, but at least they are less likely to rot swiftly. The TEMPERATURE of shipped eggs is extremely critical. From many areas in the country it is simply too late to receive eggs by post: non-air-conditioned facilities where the outside temperatures are in the upper 90’s mean your eggs will be sterilized after a few hours. Best to have eggs sent in the spring.

MACHINE: First thing above all: CLEANLINESS. Wash trays, or whatever the surface the eggs come into contact with, with a 10% bleach solution. Wash the inside of the machine, being careful of the electrics. Sterilize the incubator before you ever put an egg in it – even if this is the first time it has been used. Some consider a rigourous concern for sanitary conditions to be fussy as a hen’s nest is not a sterile environment: we must remember that our incubator is a poor substitute for the professional expertise of a broody hen. We must work to maximize our chances.
Always follow manufacturer’s advice for correct temperature. Still-air are very picky things: the temperature differs greatly vertically: there are bands of air with different temperatures between bottom and top; horizontally: differences from centre to sides. The best way to help such a machine is to reduce fluctuations by placing the incubator in a room where the temperature is fairly stable. A garage in the sun, etc. experience shifts in temperature, but a study or living room is probably more stable. Once you have a place, calibrate the temperature (this can be frustrating; take your time – can be several hours, and is the best thing for success). Once done, make sure your machine is working well – put three thermometers inside to make sure the temperature is correct, or invest in a good electric one. If your machine is satisfactory at holding a constant temperature for a day or so, then and only then see about getting eggs.

A forced air is by far the easier: simply calibrate, give it a few days to make sure all is well, and your eggs will be well cared for. Not as picky about location, do still look for a site that is not too warm: a garage where the outside temperature is in the upper 90’s will be considerably warmer than what you want in your incubator: the machine can do nothing to stop outside temperatures above the 100 F.

HUMIDITY: inexpensive digital machines that record humidity at pet stores can be purchased for lizards that are easy for the beginner to use. First, consider the humidity of your area. In southern Arizona where humidity is very low means you will have to work harder to meet the needs of the developing embryos; where I am in Texas humidity can fluctuate wildly, but is often high: thus, the work is to keep the humidity under control. The requirements of humidity, in my experience at least, are: less in the initial stages of development – the eggs need to loose moisture gradually until the last 3-4 days when humidity must be increased to allow the chicks to hatch. Is in the membrane between chick and shell that is the problem: too little moisture, the chick sticks to the membrane and will die; too much and it will ‘drown’. I prefer broody hens to incubators, but there is inevitably a time when either too many eggs or too few broody hens mean I need the machine. I keep it inside (summer temperatures often are above 100 F), and usually do not worry about humidity (often very high) until the end.

CANDLING: Check for fertility at 14 days. Look up on the internet for pictorial aids. Do not mistake a blood ring for a developing embryo. Discard any infertile or dead egg – or any that smell bad.

GOOD PRACTICE: a matter of importance. DO NOT OPEN THE INCUBATOR unless you need to turn the eggs (an automatic turner is worth the investment). Turn the eggs carefully four times a day; make sure you do not crack the shells. Wash your hands before you touch them. Otherwise leave the incubator alone (aside from monitoring the temperature, but you must be able to do this without opening the machine). This is especially important when the chicks are hatching. You will hear peeps coming from the machine a day or two preceding pipping, when the chick has pipped, and as they hatch. This is NOT a cause for concern, a cry for help, but normal. Do not open the incubator – you should have stopped tuning the eggs 4 days before hatch (chicks need to get into position to pip and do not need to be fiddled with) and seen to the humidity. Once the chicks have hatched, leave them in the incubator until they have dried completely. They have absorbed their yolk sack, and not need to eat or drink for a day or so. Move them to brooder facilities, discard any unhatched eggs. At this point, I would also advise not mixing batches of eggs – adding newer eggs to an existing batch in the incubator. Once chicks hatch, they spread pathogens – you cannot clean the incubator while still hoping to nurture developing eggs.

What is a reasonable expectation for hatch results with an incubator? With shipped eggs: 40% or lower with a machine the owner knows well. If higher, you are lucky. With fresh eggs (your own that you can verify were the product of a well-ordered breeding pen): 80-100% for an experienced individual – but there are always fluctuations.

Sorry for the rambling dissertation. Always remember: experience is the best teacher! A good machine (check that it holds a temperature), good eggs (fresh always will be better than posted), and good practice will result in good hatches.

Good luck,

Richard


Addenda:

It occurs to me that I did not mention specific ranges of humidity in my over-long post, or explain how I meant ‘drown’, so:

When the chick pips, it forces its beak through the air cell at the large end of the egg (a reason to set only well-shaped eggs: an air cell at the narrow side can cause complications); if not enough moisture has been lost during incubation, the excess fluid floods the cell, and the chick inhales this in its first breaths, and thus expires. Perform an autopsy on any dead-in-the-shell eggs: broken air cell, but dead chick is most probably drowned.

I visited North Carolina last summer – it was beautiful, and humid (at least when I was there in June), so if ambient humidity levels in your incubation areas are high, only add moisture the last two days or so. If the egg has been losing 13-15% of its moisture as it has progressed in development, you will need above 65% humidity in the incubation chamber. Again, DO NOT OPEN the incubator after you have adjusted humidity for hatch, as it takes a while to reestablish humidity when it is lost (and it is lost quickly when the incubator is opened).

Best of luck again,

R