Yellow tint to my White Leghorns

[Gary]

First my pullets started showing a yellow tint in their hackels, and now my male bird is starting to show a little yellow. This is my first venture into white birds and I'm a little puzzled as to why this is happening. They get a little sunshine in the afternoon,clean water at all times and the feed is fresh{As far as I can tell}from the feed store. Thanks, Gary

[Evy]

It may be genetic, or too much sun, or too much corn.

[Gary]

That might be it. Too much corn in the winter time. I have always fed them corn to help with these Northeast winters. Thanks, Gary

[Gary]

In just a week and a half the yellow tint is almost gone. While I was away, the person looking after my birds gave them all the corn they wanted and they left the regular feed alone. Thanks Evy for the tip. Gary

[dhw]

I would suspect they were molting if it went away like that... Once the color is on a feather it generally doesn't just go away. When the new feathers are coming in they often times have a yellowish tint to them.

[Gary]

No, they were not in molt. It was during the winter and the person watching my birds feed them nothing but corn. It's now April 6, and they are all white and have been in a very clean coop for the winter. I still believe it was the corn.

[Penmaker]

This a quote from another site
"Plumage colors and patterns are part of this feather formation process. As a feather is formed and extruded out of the follicle it becomes a non-living yet attached tissue (as is hair). The colors and patterns of the feather are not applied to the feather but are incorporated into the structure of the feathers as it is formed. This structural inclusion of color and pattern has a major effect on what color and pattern are visually perceived....only two pigment colors are capable of being generated by their follicles - black and brown. The pigment forming cells within the follicles are of two populations, those that synthesize black pigment (eumelanin) and those that synthesize brown pigment (pheomelanin)."
I am not sure but it is not likely that color would be added to feathers from what they have eaten. I did not copy all that is written about feathers here but the portion of the comment above about the color in a feather being cells, later mentioned as capsules, is also important. all other feather colors are not actually colors in the feather but a result of refracted light due to the structure of the feathers. something like how a prism breaks light up into a rainbow. But different structures in feathers allow only certain colors back out. and that is what we see as say a green or blue feather. there is actually no green or blue in the feather. You can see this for yourself by holding one up to a light or window and viewing light that is passing through it. I will usually look brown.
Given that the only two colors that could be added to a feather are brown or black and it is unlikely that corn could change the structure of an already formed and now dead feather I am not certain it was what your birds have eaten that would cause the color. it is more likely they are colored from the outside. Maybe investigate more closely what they may have come into contact with.

[Rainplace]

Penmaker, could you share a link to the full article? I'd be interested in reading it. Thanks.

[MKG]

Penmaker,
Poultry people with experience know that foods high in Xanthophyll will affect the coloring of white feathers. It is actually a combination of genetic susceptibility and feedstuff like corn. Beyond debate. In this case the feathers may not have been fully mature while the diet of corn was being fed.

[Penmaker]

Originally Posted by Rainplace

Penmaker, could you share a link to the full article? I'd be interested in reading it. Thanks.

Warning it is a very long article that covers a lot of ground. but it is written in a fairly easy to read style. http://www.uncleginkscave.com/GC-Whi...ckleFarms.html
It is partially written by someone that has just a bit of experience with breeding. Tom Whiting of Whiting Hackle. The leading fly tying hackle producer in the world. I think he knows his ins and outs to feathers that is why I said, I am not sure and left the definitive comments his. I do realize that chemicals can have effects and is exactly why I said I was not certain. I do wonder why if it is so well known that feathers can be colored. this information was not offered prior to my post.

[Penmaker]

Originally Posted by MKG

Penmaker,
Poultry people with experience know that foods high in Xanthophyll will affect the coloring of white feathers. It is actually a combination of genetic susceptibility and feedstuff like corn. Beyond debate. In this case the feathers may not have been fully mature while the diet of corn was being fed.

Would the coloring then be in or on the feathers? As I understand it color is added in the feather as it is formed. As I read it the color faded which indicates it was on the feather and not in it. Unless I misunderstand that the yellow feathers molted and the new feathers came in white. Actually if you read the entire article it speaks quite a bit about environment and the effect it has on Genetic expression. Feed would definitely fall into that category. He speaks about it directly but only in the context of not only providing adequate nutrition to achieve maximum expression. But providing above and beyond to insure full expression.

Also have you ever seen this due to the Xanthophyll that is added to Poultry feed.

[jungle]

Diet most certainly can have an effect on feather color while the feathers are growing. Two common examples are pink flamingos and red-factor canaries.

[Penmaker]

Originally Posted by jungle

Diet most certainly can have an effect on feather color while the feathers are growing. Two common examples are pink flamingos and red-factor canaries.

Are the effects correctable in the already formed feathers? I don't know exactly what the effect is, darker lighter off color different color etc. I realize that if a bird while growing a feather, does not have proper nutrition, It very likely would effect the formation of that feather. Actually feather production is likely to be one of the first things effected by any sort of environmental effect the bird is subjected to. It is fairly far down the list of priorities as a thing the chicken will devote resources to if they become lacking. it will devote what nutrition it has to sustaining life first, then reproductive abilities, feathers start to come into consideration somewhere down the list beyond that.
Sort of touches on some other things I have thought concerning the Serama. but that is a completely different conversation. I am trying to avoid writing to much in one post and only coming across confusing to everyone.

[jungle]

Originally Posted by Penmaker

Are the effects correctable in the already formed feathers? I don't know exactly what the effect is, darker lighter off color different color etc.

No. Once a feather grows in the color is not changeable via diet. The color CAN be changed by sunlight and become yellowed or otherwise bleached out. That can be seen in blue birds during a moult when the new feathers appear much more blue and the old feathers can appear to have a brown cast.

[Penmaker]

Jungle, From what I have learned that is what I would have suspected. I would also say that concerning reds which I would guess pink is the same as in the same way blue is actually a partially disrupted black. would then be a problem in the actually structure of the feather. I don't know at this time just what all nutrients are involved in the actual building of the hair. It is also probably getting down to the level that most people will never know and never want to know. But it could very well help in figuring out just what nutritional problems there are.
Here was another thought I had. Xanthophyll is the stuff that colors the yolk yellow, as well as gives the yellow color to the legs, skin and fat tissue. So without going to what else it is it is basically a coloring agent or dye. Corn is not that great of a nutritional source either. so the coloring of the feathers when fed corn could be a nutritional deficiency that is expressed by a malformation of the feather. The cell structure of the feather is damaged so that it now refracts yellow. this requires that the feather is grown during the time the deficiency is accouring.
I don't think that an excess of Xanthophyll could color the feather as it was being grown like it is staining it. the feather simply is not colored that way. but even if it is the staining would be in the color capsules and would not be removable except for loosing the feather and growing a new one.
In either case the color change cannot be changed in that particular feather.
Third is the idea that the feather actually has something on it. if so how did it get there.
There is actually one other thing that indicates that the color is not being added to the feather. And that is that the bird is white. White is not a color it is the absence of color and is actually the result of the inhibiting of color being added to the feather. so even if the Xanthophyll is able to get into the color capsules the bird produces. it does not matter because the I Gene is preventing those capsules from being added to the feather.
Anyway, when I read that someone has feathers turning yellow on a white bird and than changing back again. this and a lot more flashes through my mind and simply spits out. the color of the feather did not change, it got something on it somehow. and that something has now worn off. I was thinking they may even transfer Xanthophyll to the feathers during preening if they are fed something with high levels of it.

[Evy]

It's very obvious in white calls & poultry. WF kept in shade or in a winter pen covered in plastic will be noticably more yellow. A few weeks in sun will whiten them up. Conversely, white chickens tend to yellow in bright sunlight, buff birds fade, some others get a ''brassy'' look to them. No molting involved !

[Penmaker]

Evy, If what you refer to as "Brassy" is the same thing as what is called brassy in fly tying hackle. that is a break down in the refracting structure of the feather which then reveals the underlying brown pigment capsules. This is actually a trait bred for in hackle to get various color varieties in Dunn, better known to chicken folk as Blue. The result is called a dusky Dunn among other names for the variations they have achieved.
In the case of birds changing colors as feathers get older or are subjected to the environment. i suspect this is nothing more than wear and tear on the feathers. Birds that are yellow until they are exposed to the sun. Not sure on that one, but without any other causes to consider. yellow is a result of the structure of the feather. something has to be changing that structure. I am not sure that all birds are limited to producing only brown and black pigments either. I am pretty sure that is true about all chickens. Don;t know nothing about ducks cept they stink. we have them in the parks around here and if they get to close the smell makes it hard to even breath. I have worked in Chicken houses with 20,000 chickens in them and they do not hold a candle to a duck when it comes to working up an odor.
I did have a hamburger and fries in the park one day. a nest full of ducklings actually ran over to get some hand outs. they actually climbed right up in my lap. keep in mind these are completely wild ducks that just migrate here. Even at just a few weeks of age they smelled so bad I could not stand it. I don't know if it is the oil in there feathers or what. but i am not sensitive to bad smells at all. I have crawled down a skunks hole to retrieve puppies. So I really don't know what it is and maybe it is just specific to me. But I cannot be around them.

[dhw]

Originally Posted by Evy

It's very obvious in white calls & poultry. WF kept in shade or in a winter pen covered in plastic will be noticably more yellow. A few weeks in sun will whiten them up. Conversely, white chickens tend to yellow in bright sunlight, buff birds fade, some others get a ''brassy'' look to them. No molting involved !

Right but in most situations a white chicken will not be pure white, turn yellow, and then turn back to pure white without a molt. If it was something on the feathers such as dirt and you were lucky that it didn't stain then maybe.

Certain strains of chickens when fed corn up to the molt can get a yellow tint that may bleach out in the sun. A similar thing happens in some blacks with purple bars in the feathers.

[Evy]

Originally Posted by Penmaker

Evy, If what you refer to as "Brassy" is the same thing as what is called brassy in fly tying hackle. that is a break down in the refracting structure of the feather which then reveals the underlying brown pigment capsules. This is actually a trait bred for in hackle to get various color varieties in Dunn, better known to chicken folk as Blue. The result is called a dusky Dunn among other names for the variations they have achieved.
In the case of birds changing colors as feathers get older or are subjected to the environment. i suspect this is nothing more than wear and tear on the feathers. Birds that are yellow until they are exposed to the sun. Not sure on that one, but without any other causes to consider. yellow is a result of the structure of the feather. something has to be changing that structure. I am not sure that all birds are limited to producing only brown and black pigments either. I am pretty sure that is true about all chickens. Don;t know nothing about ducks cept they stink. we have them in the parks around here and if they get to close the smell makes it hard to even breath. I have worked in Chicken houses with 20,000 chickens in them and they do not hold a candle to a duck when it comes to working up an odor.
I did have a hamburger and fries in the park one day. a nest full of ducklings actually ran over to get some hand outs. they actually climbed right up in my lap. keep in mind these are completely wild ducks that just migrate here. Even at just a few weeks of age they smelled so bad I could not stand it. I don't know if it is the oil in there feathers or what. but i am not sensitive to bad smells at all. I have crawled down a skunks hole to retrieve puppies. So I really don't know what it is and maybe it is just specific to me. But I cannot be around them.

Must be you. Anything kept in bad conditions smell. I'd invite anyone into my place.
Wasn't this about discoloration ? The brassy I refered to was a rusty look on dark birds. "Brassy'' is another poultry term. I may be wrong but blue is blue in chicken talk. Dunn is brownish, I believe. Help me here, guys.

[Rainplace]

Originally Posted by Penmaker

Warning it is a very long article that covers a lot of ground. but it is written in a fairly easy to read style. http://www.uncleginkscave.com/GC-Whi...ckleFarms.html
It is partially written by someone that has just a bit of experience with breeding. Tom Whiting of Whiting Hackle. The leading fly tying hackle producer in the world. I think he knows his ins and outs to feathers that is why I said, I am not sure and left the definitive comments his.

<snip>

Holy moly! I had no idea such a thing existed. So far interesting read, I'll have to finish it up after I head to work.